Clowney: At What Price?

Clowney: At What Cost: Clowney?

$15/16 Mill
0
No votes
$17/18 Mill
2
15%
$19/20 Mill
3
23%
$20/21 Mill
1
8%
$22/23 Mill
6
46%
Over $23 Mill
1
8%
 
Total votes: 13

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Donn Beach
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:39 pm

dominate what?...

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:42 pm

Negotiations?

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Donn Beach
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:58 pm

I consider JS a very good GM, i felt he handled the RW contract successfully. RW and his team were trying to get JS to sign their contract but he got them to sign his. It wasn't dominating, it was a successful negotiation

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Donn Beach
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:00 pm

The point i was trying to make, is if Clowney comes in with some other teams contract offer, it could be difficult for JS to match it, i think he is displined to go about things with how the Hawks do contracts. I think they have shown a lot of discipline that way

auroraave
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by auroraave » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:10 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm
I just find it funny that everyone wants to believe we dominate these things. Highest paid QB when he signed, we mad Bobby the highest paid MLB, Kam was the highest paid SS, Earl the highest paid FS and Sherm the highest paid CB.

It is what it is, if we hadn’t paid them someone else would have and they’d have left. Same goes for Clowney.
Everyone you just quoted is/was arguably the best at their position. Why would they not be paid accordingly? You seem to consistently look for reasons to downplay and minimize JS's work. I don't get it. He is really fucking good. The fact we have massive caps space coming off another playoff run - is a miracle. Have you seen teh disaster the Lambs are dealing with? Why do you have such a problem with him? You still upset about the Penny pick? You always obsess on the misses while failing to acknowledge the overwhelming massive wins. You bitched and moaned relentlessly about what a bust Penny was - turns out - you were dead wrong.

What is your beef with John Schneider? That's he doesn't bat 1000? That he has had misses? That not very draft has been all-pro's? Do you really believe he is so bad?

auroraave
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by auroraave » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:18 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:00 pm
The point i was trying to make, is if Clowney comes in with some other teams contract offer, it could be difficult for JS to match it, i think he is displined to go about things with how the Hawks do contracts. I think they have shown a lot of discipline that way

Exactly. Fans want everything now now now now now. "Pay the man whatever he wants!!!" That doesn't work. You don't negotiate with your 'feelings'. You have to macro and micro the team for today and 3,4,5 seasons away. it's an incredible balancing act. Notice none of the signings have leveraged the future of the franchise - none. Again - look at the situation in LA - disaster - just as they are moving into a new stadium. Ouch.

Michael K.
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:20 pm

auroraave wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:10 pm
Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm
I just find it funny that everyone wants to believe we dominate these things. Highest paid QB when he signed, we mad Bobby the highest paid MLB, Kam was the highest paid SS, Earl the highest paid FS and Sherm the highest paid CB.

It is what it is, if we hadn’t paid them someone else would have and they’d have left. Same goes for Clowney.
Everyone you just quoted is/was arguably the best at their position. Why would they not be paid accordingly? You seem to consistently look for reasons to downplay and minimize JS's work. I don't get it. He is really fucking good. The fact we have massive caps space coming of another playoff run - is a miracle. Why do you have such a problem with him? You still upset about the Penny pick? You always obsess on the misses while failing to acknowledge the overwhelming massive wins. You bitched and moaned relentlessly about what a bust Penny was - turns out - you were dead wrong.

What is your beef with John Schneider? That's he doesn't bat 1000? That he has had misses? That not very draft has been all-pro's? Do you really believe he is so bad?
I didn't say they weren't the best, nor did I say they didn't deserve the money. Just find it funny how rosey everyone likes to feel about how we win these negotiations. We pay the going rate or we don't get the player. Simple as that. It is as simple as that everywhere. Sherman asked us to match the 49er offer, we did not and he walked. Schneider was deciding who he was going to pay, and Sherman wasn't one of those guys. We will pay Clowney or we probably lose him. How is what I posted a "beef".

You think we keep all of these players because of Schneider, or do we keep the players Schneider wants and he pays them accordingly? I never said Schneider didn't do a good job, but what he does a good job at is deciding who to pay...not somehow convincing them to take less money, or sign a more team friendly deal. If some crappy 3 - 4 team only offers Clowney a bit more than us than maybe we get a small discount. But, if a 4 - 3 team with a shot to win next year offers more than us, you really think JS or PC or anyone will find a way to make Clowney stay?

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Donn Beach
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:23 pm

I think JS is an interesting character, both him and PC, what a pair. JS is like this average Joe to me, you could see having a beer with him in a bar. He doesn't come off really impressive, like pressers but I think he is good at what he does. That is not to say its been entirely successful. I do think they tried to pull off a pretty radical approach after the second SB to try and keep the LOB together. That was the ordeal with the Oline and all that. I do not put that all on Cable. It didn't really work but i give them credit for trying, it was interesting. And i do have confidence that JS isn't going to be sitting around on his ass this off season.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:28 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:20 pm
auroraave wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:10 pm
Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm
I just find it funny that everyone wants to believe we dominate these things. Highest paid QB when he signed, we mad Bobby the highest paid MLB, Kam was the highest paid SS, Earl the highest paid FS and Sherm the highest paid CB.

It is what it is, if we hadn’t paid them someone else would have and they’d have left. Same goes for Clowney.
Everyone you just quoted is/was arguably the best at their position. Why would they not be paid accordingly? You seem to consistently look for reasons to downplay and minimize JS's work. I don't get it. He is really fucking good. The fact we have massive caps space coming of another playoff run - is a miracle. Why do you have such a problem with him? You still upset about the Penny pick? You always obsess on the misses while failing to acknowledge the overwhelming massive wins. You bitched and moaned relentlessly about what a bust Penny was - turns out - you were dead wrong.

What is your beef with John Schneider? That's he doesn't bat 1000? That he has had misses? That not very draft has been all-pro's? Do you really believe he is so bad?
I didn't say they weren't the best, nor did I say they didn't deserve the money. Just find it funny how rosey everyone likes to feel about how we win these negotiations. We pay the going rate or we don't get the player. Simple as that. It is as simple as that everywhere. Sherman asked us to match the 49er offer, we did not and he walked. Schneider was deciding who he was going to pay, and Sherman wasn't one of those guys. We will pay Clowney or we probably lose him. How is what I posted a "beef".

You think we keep all of these players because of Schneider, or do we keep the players Schneider wants and he pays them accordingly? I never said Schneider didn't do a good job, but what he does a good job at is deciding who to pay...not somehow convincing them to take less money, or sign a more team friendly deal. If some crappy 3 - 4 team only offers Clowney a bit more than us than maybe we get a small discount. But, if a 4 - 3 team with a shot to win next year offers more than us, you really think JS or PC or anyone will find a way to make Clowney stay?
I do think its more who to pay, it has to do with how they are paid, I don't think its about trying to beat them down on their value. It has to do with how they structure their CAP and all that. I am not a big brain on CAP issues, but i do think there is more to it than just the amount of salary. You can disagree, but as i understand it, JS and the Hawks have a strict system of how they write their contracts, and stick to it

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D-train
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Re: Clowney: At What Price?

Post by D-train » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:34 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:23 pm
I think JS is an interesting character, both him and PC, what a pair. JS is like this average Joe to me, you could see having a beer with him in a bar. He doesn't come off really impressive, like pressers but I think he is good at what he does. That is not to say its been entirely successful. I do think they tried to pull off a pretty radical approach after the second SB to try and keep the LOB together. That was the ordeal with the Oline and all that. I do not put that all on Cable. It didn't really work but i give them credit for trying, it was interesting. And i do have confidence that JS isn't going to be sitting around on his ass this off season.
I love listening to JS get interviewed. He reminds me a of a 16 yo kid that has a crush on a girl who he is asking for a date and is so nervous he can't even form a sentence. Or maybe Chris Farley interviewing Paul McCartney. lol
dt

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