Anarcho-Tyranny

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:02 am

Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2023 5:31 pm
Actually yes, arresting officers should monitor the medical needs of the citizens they go about arresting. They take on that responsibility by arresting them
And where does it say that?
Cite your source please. And I certainly hope it isn't a cherry-picked line with a lot more to add.

And Floyd was fighting and yelling the entire time he was being held down. It was the drugs that caused him to die.

You really should watch the video. He struggled, he swore, he kept complaining (with normal speech, not labored breathing) that he was going to die and was being suffocated. Seriously, if you are being suffocated, how can you continue to speak?

But I am truly interested in this source you are going to produce that says law enforcement MUST monitor the medical needs of the [citizens] they are about to arrest. Are you sure this is only for [citizens]? What about illegals? What about visiting people from other countries? This is why most of us here believe you are full of shit and talk out your ass.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Donn Beach » Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:00 am

A source, how about Gary T. Klugiewicz.
He is retired from the Milwaukee County Sheriff’s Department after 25 years of service where he was promoted to the rank of captain. As former Street Survival® Seminar instructor and internationally known defensive tactics instructor, Gary has impacted hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers.

Even more importantly, as a righteous police officer use-of-force defense expert , Gary has defended scores of officers in legal proceedings.

Gary Klugiewicz is the director of research & development for the Verbal Judo Institute. He has collaborated with Dr. Thompson to develop a series of specialized training programs for corrections, mental health, and other public service employees, as well as, one for private citizens, including children and young adults. Currently, he is the lead instructor for Verbal Judo's (Tactical Communication for the Correctional Professional) training program
No cherry picking, here is what he has to say, learn about proper police procedure
We need to remember that when police officers take a prisoner into custody they have just become “short term” corrections (custody) officers

This statement sometimes surprises street officers who often don’t understand all the implications of having a prisoner in their “custody.” It doesn’t matter whether you are a police officer transporting a prisoner from a street arrest scene, a police officer picking up a prisoner for court, a police officer transporting a sick inmate, a detective taking a prisoner out of lock up to a remote site for an interview, or an airport police officer holding a person for transport, you are now responsible for that prisoner’s “care and wellbeing.”

Understanding this concept will keep you safer—both physically and legally. Police officers, once you take a subject into custody that person becomes a prisoner. He or she is now in custody and you are totally responsible for their “care and wellbeing” until such time as you request additional assistance and find other law enforcement, medical healthcare professionals, or mental health professional to assist you or are able to turn the prisoner over to other appropriate public safety professionals. In other words, YOU ARE IT. You need to understand this and understand how to do your job properly, legally, and safely. Once you take the subject into custody you are, in fact, a correctional (custody) officer with all the responsibilities an officer working in a custody assignment has. You need to understand the rules and learn how to play the game—a game that can cost you money, your job, and even your freedom if you don’t do it well. Welcome to the wonderful word of corrections.

First of all, you need to understand that prisoners in custody have a new set of rights based on their status as a prisoner. They are in your “care and custody” and you are responsible for them until you can turn them over to someone else. For a street officer this is usually to a corrections facility; but it could be a hospital and/or mental health facility; or in some cases to a responsible adult. While the prisoner is in your “care and custody”, you need to understand a basic correctional concept referred to as the "first responder philosophy."

The bottom line is that for all prisoners in custody, you are responsible not only their immediate medical wellbeing but also their long-term monitoring. This long(er) term monitoring spans the entire time that the prisoner is under your span of control—whether that be 5 minutes or 5 hours. This term refers to a prisoner’s long term medical, mental health, and/or security needs. Once a prisoner is taken into custody, whether on the street or in a correctional, medical, mental health, or treatment facility, the staff is responsible not only for their immediate medical condition but for monitoring their “long term” medical, mental health, and security needs. This is where the disconnect begins.

Street officers are usually able to get the prisoner restrained. They also understand that they need to take care of the prisoner’s immediate medical needs but often don’t understand that they need to continue to monitor their prisoner’s medical condition. This failure to continue to monitor the prisoner’s medical status often occurs with tragic and long-term consequences for both the officers involved and their agencies as in the case of a custody death.

Prisoners during transportation or in holding cells, pending transportation, must be closely monitored to insure that they don’t become a physical danger to the officers involved and aren’t experiencing a medical emergency. These prisoners being transported or held pending transportation must also be monitored for a mental health issues that may impact their safety. As any experienced police officer knows, many people who are arrested exhibit bizarre and, oftentimes, violent behavior due to their immediate personal crisis situations, drugs and alcohol on board, existing mental health issues, etc. These persons can be very dangerous to the officers who are caring for them but can also be dangerous to themselves. Their actions can intentionally or unintentionally become self-harming and even suicidal. Police Officers must understand that people in custody and in crisis, for whatever reason, are in the “care and custody” of the attending officers until such time as they can be turned over to the proper correctional, medical, mental health facility or an appropriate adult. These people need to be closely monitored for existing, developing, or delayed medical, mental health, and/or security issues.

And when it’s all over, you need to carefully document your actions. Remember that you may not know at the point of impact or shortly afterwards that this incident is going to go bad for you. Write your report as if you were going to be accused of wrong doing. Tell the whole story. Take the time to document your professional response. You know that the attorneys that may come after you will be painting quite a different picture. Protect yourself. See the attached PoliceOne report writing template to assist you.

In closing, police officers need to remember that once they take a subject into custody, that they have just become a correctional (custody) officer for the duration of the arrest, transport, and even detention prior to turnover to the appropriate facility or person. Don’t relax too soon. It can come back to bite you—physically and legally.


https://www.police1.com/suspect-transpo ... aRP1RYtsZ/

Mel Bradford
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Mel Bradford » Fri Aug 11, 2023 12:54 pm

Well Donn....they never got George Floyd "into custody". Had George Floyd relented he would be alive today save the fentanyl he ingested.

Klugiewicz takes us down the road of 'verbal judo' and 'good words/bad words'. Two instructional techniques for 'de-escalating' tension between officer(s) and suspect (s). Good grief...more psychology that indicts the officer before he opens his mouth at a crime scene. Klugiewicz is an opportunist, long since removed from street reality, he gives the mob bureaucrats affirmation and the officers an impossible task....to settle every conflict without violence or injury.

Reminds me of the line from the Bourne Identity...."Well why don't you book a conference room and talk him to death".

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Donn Beach
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Donn Beach » Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:08 pm

Sure, defusing a situation verbally seems stupid to you, i can understand that. That's not in your toolbox. Klugiewicz of course is dealing with it in real life, not the fantasy land of a Hollywood action movie, that's your world
Even more importantly, as a righteous police officer use-of-force defense expert , Gary has defended scores of officers in legal proceedings
And you ignored that
Street officers are usually able to get the prisoner restrained. They also understand that they need to take care of the prisoner’s immediate medical needs but often don’t understand that they need to continue to monitor their prisoner’s medical condition
They had him restrained, it's interesting that Klugiewicz thinks it's a given a street cop understanding he is responsible for immediate medical needs. If Thao had understood this his ass wouldn't be sitting in prison. He has been convicted twice because of his failure to do it. Police officers are responsible for the immediate medical needs. No point in debating it any longer, you don't want to agree is fine with me, it's a fact. His failure at it is why he is incarcerated.

It's odd, Thao was the senior officer, he was responsible for the behavior of the other officers who at least two were rookies. He was the one most responsible for the well being of Floyd. And yet he describes his role as being a "human traffic cone". There's something odd about that, wonder if that's were it broke down, that lack of supervision

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ddraig
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by ddraig » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:45 pm

Years ago (sometime in the early 1970's), I was helping to restrain a neighbor kid with his father and my dad. The police were called and it took five of us to maintain control on this kid who had somehow ingested some unknown drug. The kid may have weighed 140 pounds. All told, it probably took around 900 pounds of us to hold him down. With the assistance of two ambulance attendants, we finally got him loaded into an ambulance. Never found out what the kid had taken but it was presumed to be acid since it was the 70's.

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:54 pm

They had him restrained, it's interesting that Klugiewicz thinks it's a given a street cop understanding he is responsible for immediate medical needs. If Thao had understood this his ass wouldn't be sitting in prison. He has been convicted twice because of his failure to do it. Police officers are responsible for the immediate medical needs. No point in debating it any longer, you don't want to agree is fine with me, it's a fact. His failure at it is why he is incarcerated.
It seems there were three full grown men needed to hold this asshole down....and he was still fighting.

So how many more cops were needed before they could worry about his wellbeing?

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Donn Beach
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Donn Beach » Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:58 am

Well it does sound pretty desperate
Kueng who knelt on Floyd's back, casually picked gravel from a police SUV's tire as Chauvin "mocked George Floyd's pleas by saying it took a heck of a lot of oxygen to keep talking."

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:17 am

Let me say this again.....mostly because you are adding nothing to this conversation.
It took three grown men to hold Floyd down, and even then, they all knew if anyone stopped holding him down, he would most likely break away. It doesn't matter if someone was picking gravel from the cruiser tire, or stroking their own cock....it took all three GROWN men to restrain him enough that he wasn't going to break away.

So, who was supposed to be looking out for his health when it took all three men to restrain him?
I don't expect an answer from you (Donn) because whatever you post will have nothing to do with the question. But maybe you should post the definition of some word that has been used sometime over the last month, or a clipped from webmd.com about hamstrings. :roll:

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Donn Beach
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Donn Beach » Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:35 am

Well one might imagine the three of them considering it after he lost consciousness?
Chauvin and two other officers held their positions for four minutes after Floyd lost consciousness — and two minutes beyond when he no longer had a pulse.

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:05 pm

Once again, cite your source!!!!
[damn, you love to just put up (what looks like) a quote from a good source]

Sorry Donn, I don't believe a single thing you post!!!


Have you ever heard that people on drugs are very hard to handle? A tweaker can take 5 (or more) 9mm rounds to the chest before he goes down. Why would this stupid fucking huge guy would be any different? Everyone knew he was on drugs, he showed the signs of taking drugs. I for one don't think the cops were in the wrong for their continued hold after he stopped moving; he may have been playing possum for all they knew.

On top of it, the officers knew the idiot. They knew he had a past and was MOST LIKELY on drugs (as he always was).
I hate the fact that this piece of shit was the start of a movement.
I hate the fact that this piece of shit is mentioned in the same category as MKL.

All that said, the cop at his head did turn out to be a real piece of shit; crooked as hell. But that doesn't mean he didn't perform properly here. All three cops here were put on the chopping block because the left side of America needed a scapegoat.

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