Holmgren and Carroll

Michael K.
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Holmgren and Carroll

Post by Michael K. » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:26 pm

A few different discussion on this forum have got me thinking lately. Both of these coaches who took Seahawk teams to the Super Bowl had at least some control over the players being brought in. Am I the only one that thinks they did it backwards?

Holmgren had to write "run the damn ball" on his play sheet. This from a man that had Jones, Hutch, Tobeck, Grey, and Locklear across the line. We lost a Super Bowl where Hasselbeck, a good but far from great QB, threw it 49 times. The NFL's MVP Alexander? 20 carries for 95 yards. Rothlisberger had one of the worst days by a QB ever, let alone in a Super Bowl. I feel like we would have lead 13 to 3 at the half with Pete's style and that team and the Steelers would be wondering why their offense was never on the field!

That O Line and that RB that seemed the perfect fit for that line? And you have to remind yourself to run the ball, and on the biggest stage not only turned it over to Matt, but threw it 8 times to Jeremy Stevens show he could show us all how much butter was on his fingers? I think that run would have been something else if you give Pete that team. That probably isn't the only Super Bowl we go to.

Flash forward to now? Can you imagine Holmgren in the seasons after the Super Bowl? As Russ developed, the defense was maybe not "best ever" like the 12, 13 and 14 seasons, but pretty damn good. I will tell you this, we don't lose to the Cowboys wondering why we never stopped running the ball even thought a very good Cowboy defense knew it was coming. I also don't think we set the world on fire to and go 6 and 1 to get into the playoffs only to abandon that style for two quarters in the second round against Carolina. That team was firing on all cylinders in the passing game once Beast got hurt, but he comes back the week of the Panther game and Pete decides to see what happens if we stop passing for thirty minutes. Well, what happens is we trailed 31 to 3. Freaking Holmgren would have ditched the run after the second TD that Carolina scored...and probably the first TD!

Just seems odd that both men have a very different style, and each's style seems to fit the team that the OTHER one assembled.

D-train
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by D-train » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:51 pm

Perhaps we as Seattle Sports fans are truly cursed. Good news is we can look forward to speed dating....

https://twitter.com/AaronQ13Fox/status/ ... 6205998080
dt

DavidGee24
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by DavidGee24 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:44 am

Funny how that works, and I did a thread not too long ago about watching 2000s Seahawk highlights and realizing that Hasselbeck really wasn't that good. He should have been putting up huge numbers on that team and he didn't. I never thought about them not running the ball that day, but if they put the ball in Alexander's gut 30-35 times they beat the Steeler defense into submission.

D-train
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by D-train » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:52 am

I am so glad to be a Celtics fan now. Could somebody please fax me a copy of the Celtics roster.
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Michael K.
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by Michael K. » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:44 am

DavidGee24 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:44 am
Funny how that works, and I did a thread not too long ago about watching 2000s Seahawk highlights and realizing that Hasselbeck really wasn't that good. He should have been putting up huge numbers on that team and he didn't. I never thought about them not running the ball that day, but if they put the ball in Alexander's gut 30-35 times they beat the Steeler defense into submission.
He really wasn't. He was the product of a pretty darn good system and an amazing O Line and Running Game. Really? The bottom line? It was the O Line. Alexander was a great fit for that O Line, but can anyone imagine if Lynch ran behind that line!?

And yes, HELL yes about running the ball in the Super Bowl. We didn't even run it in the first half, when we actually controlled the game. It is ego...Holmgren was the anti Pete. It would have killed him to win a Super Bowl when no one was raving about his creative passing game. I really think he lost the Super Bowl to Denver much in the same way.

If Pete comes out next year and opens up the passing game, and it works...then what? He might have to answer to why he wasted years forcing a square peg into a round hole! A small part of me thinks that is why we lost in Carolina...because Pete just couldn't handle turning the offense over to the passing attack, and once Lynch was back his mind was made up. It happens game after game. We were in so many close games last year because the style of play it took to win wasn't what Pete wanted to play...so he waited until he had no choice. It really is strange.

57reasons
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by 57reasons » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:59 am

DavidGee24 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:44 am
. I never thought about them not running the ball that day....
probably because the passing game was humming! forget how many yards, but seemed like Matt was spraying the ball all over the place with little resistance other than Leavy's crew unfortunately. hate to rehash, but the bogus OPI on DJack and holding call on Locklear were literally epic game-changers or the passing stats would have been even more impressive.

Michael K.
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:18 am

20 carries at almost 5 yards a pop for the League's MVP, in a game we lost, had 10 points total, 3 at the half...is "humming"?

49 attempts got us 259 yards passing. Humming? The Steelers completed 10 passes to our 26. We outgained them by less than 90 yards. Humming?

If Russ threw it 49 times, with 1 pick and 1 TD, and averaged 5.6 per attempt in a Super Bowl loss...this place would have gone OFF!

Humming? Yikes. We must have to be pretty bad for you to raise an eyebrow. 10 points is the furthest thing from humming I can imagine.

57reasons
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by 57reasons » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:52 am

but how many more would it be if you take away the Leavy takeaways? not saying we shouldnt have run it, just think what we ran appeared to be working from the 20 to the 40 at least - did stall quite a bit at that point. and if Jerramy Stevens could have caught his wide open targets that would have helped.

Michael K.
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:42 am

57reasons wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:52 am
but how many more would it be if you take away the Leavy takeaways? not saying we shouldnt have run it, just think what we ran appeared to be working from the 20 to the 40 at least - did stall quite a bit at that point. and if Jerramy Stevens could have caught his wide open targets that would have helped.
Maybe, but maybe limit Stevens targets by handing it the the MVP of the league and let those big boys up front do what they are good at?

That was kind of the point of my post. PC would have taken that a Steelers team and bludgeoned them to death. Holmgren just wanted to sling it. Even though the strength of the offense was elsewhere.

I love Carson, but Wilson, Lockett and DK are the strength of this team. Yes, run the ball...but Jesus, sometimes watching us refuse to make an effort for thirty or forty five minutes of football because God forbid Russ might run the show? Baffles me.

Lords of Scythia
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Re: Holmgren and Carroll

Post by Lords of Scythia » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:26 pm

Coach Holmes shoul've just jammed it up their asses with Alexander instead of farting around with Jeremy Stephens. Especially late in the game with the lead and possession. Just use lots of clock and only call runs and high-percentage passes that extend drives and just let the clock run out on Pitt. His late-game plan lost the game.

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