Probably will get this me killed

[Donn Beach]

I don't have him as anything, if he is the first baseman of the future fine, I think they project White as that however. If he is going to be a DH only player then he really needs to be able to hit lefties, if he can then cool. In my mind there are not many players that can be carried as DH only these days, guys like EE and Cruz, it limits the roster flexibility. He certainly is not untouchable to me...

[bpj]

They should make exactly zero decisions based on any kid in the minors regardless of what you "think" or is "in your mind".

A good DH is a luxury. Something this forum forgets so easily when we have a Boomstick or Encarnacion.

Anyone remember the years before that?? Effin Vidro. Kendrys? Everything in between.

Such a short memory on this forum. And a bad memory at that.

[D-train]

that is a selling point?

Should be a selling point to people that ignorantly assume he is slow. He is also has a better base running metric, than Seager, Omar, Moore, Healy and Beckham. He isn't fast be he isn't slow either. His OPS vs. lefties is now up to a reasonable .667 in his first full season. It was be absurd to trade the best hitter on the team with 5 more years of control.

btw he second on the team in WAR and 1st among position players. On pace for a 3.5 WAR season. Remember when you thought he had no chance to be a regular?

Vogelbach isn't untouchable, but neither is he slow or bad at hitting left handers. He's a rookie that made the All Star team and has a .873 OPS- including those lefties.

Platooning on purpose is stupid and is a disadvantage in the middle innings when they can just bring a lefty in to face your lefty while it's still too early in the game to pinch hit or risk putting yourself short on the bench late in the game. Wade Miley getting replaced in the 5th by a righty situations when theyve left Vogelbach rotting on the bench.

That's why platoons by design will always fail. The middle innings.

Get good players, like those that put up cumulative .873 OPS's and worry about the dunces that can't hit. Being fast is the last thing on the totem pole of importance, just below defense.

Exactly.

[D-train]

Should be a selling point to people that ignorantly assume he is slow. He is also has a better base running metric, than Seager, Omar, Moore, Healy and Beckham. He isn't fast be he isn't slow either. His OPS vs. lefties is now up to a reasonable .667 in his first full season. It was be absurd to trade the best hitter on the team with 5 more years of control.

btw he second on the team in WAR and 1st among position players. On pace for a 3.5 WAR season. Remember when you thought he had no chance to be a regular?

Its not a question of if he is a fast or slow DH, its being a DH in the first place, are you going to use him as a late game base running replacement? If he ends up being platooned it really limits his roster value since he isn't going to be used for a defensive or base running replacement. He would be a part time DH, and teams these days are getting away from using a player as a DH only in the first place.

When did i think he had no chance to be a regular?

I do not understand why you have him as a DH only. He has shown the ability to play 1B as well. You do not need to platoon him at all. He started out really bad against LHP but has been better and so no need to limit him. BTW the early platoon thing was more of a way to get ABS for EE, Bruce, Santana, Haniger, Mallex and VBach from 3 OF and DH-1B so 6 to make 5.

Amazing how myths just go on and on and on despite objective evidence that disputes them. Ackley was an OFer in college, Cruz will be a horrible FA signing Vogelbach is a terrible 1B. Guess what he is the 20th best 1B out of 70 in the past three seasons per UZR/150. Clearly if White makes it he should be the 1B but zero reason he can't split time between 1B/DH in the meantime.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... &sort=25,d

[D-train]

something odd about that list, it has Ohtani as the 6th fastest DH, but he is considered basically as fast as Mike Trout

https://tv5.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/240 ... game-speed

I'm trying to think of how the BsR stat might fall short as a measure of a player's speed alone. Something about how Vogelbach hits the ball leads to him getting a very high extra-base hit %, and perhaps infielders play deeper than normal so that when they field his ground balls they have less time to turn a DP. I don't know why those things would be the case though. Perhaps he also is more conservative about stealing bases.

BsR (Base Running Runs Above Average): Number of runs above or below average a player has been worth on the bases, based on stolen bases, caught stealing, extra bases taken, outs on the bases, and avoiding double plays. It is the combination of wSB, UBR, and wGDP.

https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/o ... tics-list/

Very astute observation and I was wrong. Vogey is in fact the slowest guy on the team in terms of pure "speed". But the fact remains as the Bsr measure shows, he is a relatively good base runner despite that limitation.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_s ... SEA&min=10

[Donn Beach]

is this getting to be a strawman discussion?...I thought the question was if he was untouchable or not...is he?

[D-train]

is this getting to be a strawman discussion?...I thought the question was if he was untouchable or not...is he?

Nobody is untouchable. Not even Vlad. I am sure the BJs would consider a trade for Trout if the Angels agree to pay 90% of his salary.

[Donn Beach]

Clearly if White makes it he should be the 1B but zero reason he can't split time between 1B/DH in the meantime.

ok...so who said he couldn't?...I am just trying to figure out what it is we are supposed to be discussing, i guess nothing

[D-train]

Clearly if White makes it he should be the 1B but zero reason he can't split time between 1B/DH in the meantime.

ok...so who said he couldn't?...I am just trying to figure out what it is we are supposed to be discussing, i guess nothing

We are trying to discuss whether on not we should trade Vogey. I say no. Pretty simple.

[Donn Beach]

what if the Jays offer Vlad for him?...that was the question that was asked, the one i was addressing...

if another team offers an attractive offer for him do you think that Jerry will listen or is he untouchable??