Poll on Ichiro

[Sibelius Hindemith]

To be honest the poll was a masquerade, I actually would love to hear peoples opinions on him. I honestly think its a great subject considering how divided people are about him.

For clarity I voted nay!

So did i. Sorry, i kind of was nitpicking there. I think those are probably close to the most common views people have on the issue. He was a polarizing figure i suppose.

[Wishhiker]

We can have a reasoned debate on this because there are good points on both sides of the argument here.

I'm not finding much in this community that I'd classify as reasoned debate lately. There's a lot of talking around points, ignoring points, stubbornly standing firm to things that are factually incorrect and snide sarcasm to attempt to cover the rest of the sophomoric behavior. Enlightened is not any of that.

[D-train]

I can see people being fans of his but the hero worship is what makes me want to puke. His best years were 2001 and 2004 when we won the division by 14 and finished 29 games back. He was terrible when the team needed him in 2002 and 2003.

[Dr Naysay]

We can have a reasoned debate on this because there are good points on both sides of the argument here.

I'm not finding much in this community that I'd classify as reasoned debate lately. There's a lot of talking around points, ignoring points, stubbornly standing firm to things that are factually incorrect and snide sarcasm to attempt to cover the rest of the sophomoric behavior. Enlightened is not any of that.

It's the internet dude, my opinion is more relevant than yours that's how it works. Your opinions backed up with facts are awesome, I appreciate it so please don't give up. I love reading your stuff so don't go away.

[bpj]

We can have a reasoned debate on this because there are good points on both sides of the argument here.

I'm not finding much in this community that I'd classify as reasoned debate lately. There's a lot of talking around points, ignoring points, stubbornly standing firm to things that are factually incorrect and snide sarcasm to attempt to cover the rest of the sophomoric behavior. Enlightened is not any of that.

Your "facts" are irrelevant when other things would change with Ichiro moving positions, or moving on.

You acting like a voice of authority on.. anything, is what's funny.

[Wishhiker]

We can have a reasoned debate on this because there are good points on both sides of the argument here.

I'm not finding much in this community that I'd classify as reasoned debate lately. There's a lot of talking around points, ignoring points, stubbornly standing firm to things that are factually incorrect and snide sarcasm to attempt to cover the rest of the sophomoric behavior. Enlightened is not any of that.

Your "facts" are irrelevant when other things would change with Ichiro moving positions, or moving on.

You acting like a voice of authority on.. anything, is what's funny.

Just going to repost all of this right here in response to "Other things would change with Ichiro moving positions, or moving on." That doesn't apply to the Mariners circa 2008-12 who filled almost every hole with garbage.

The light hitting take is way overstated. From 27 through 36 he had 1588 Games of .331/.376/.430 .806. That's not light hitting. Averaging 158.8 G, 27 dbl, 8 tpl, 10HR, 40 SB/9CS, 47BB/70K during that 10 year stretch. That consistency is unreal and he was always on the field. If that's not enough your standards are too high.

2008 was a 101 loss team. Not 1 player away. Goodbye Bavasi. Only Ibanez had a higher SLG than Ichiro's .387 of all the players who set foot in the OF that year. Sexson and Vidro didn't either, power was absent across the roster. That's the theme here.

2009 85 wins? Ichiro had 2nd highest SLG% (.465 to Branyan's .520) and 3rd highest OPS (.851, Branyan .867, Carp .878) on the team of all 33 players with a PA. They still missed the Wild Card by 10 Games. And we missed Gutierrez forever after.

2010 101 losses, definitely not 1 player away. Ichi's not so great .754 OPS was 3rd highest of 30 players. Next best was Guillermo Quiroz at .714. 5th best Smoak at .694. It's starting to look like Zduriencik can not identify any bat.

2011 95 losses, Ichiro has his big down slide at the age of 37 with .645 OPS but the only OF to rate better are Milton Bradley (200 poor innings) at .669 and Casper Wells at .742. Bradley retired that year and Wells got 418 more PA the next 2 years before following suit. His .335 SLG%was higher than DH, 3b, CF and SS. The highest Slugging over 50 PA was Mike Carp at .466, then Casper Wells at .431 and 3rd on the team Dustin Ackley at .417 SLG%. With no minimum the only
other >.400 SLG were Fister at .500 and 44 PA Liddi at .525

2012 amid 87 losses they trade Ichiro freeing up time in RF mostly for the aforementioned Wells and Eric Thames. If you think there was offense then where a RF upgrade would have made any difference, you're mistaken. It's your turn to look, I'm done reviving memories of offensive futility. It was maybe better than 2011 but only barely.

In exactly 1 of those years were the Mariners even close to contention and Ichiro was a part of the reason. That year has been brought up as analogous to 2018 where the team played over their heads around Griffeys last hoorah. Not quite as much as 2007 but in the same low pythag grouping.

[D-train]

On August 10th 2002 the team was in 1st place by 3.5 games. From that point on Ichiro hit .259/.671 for the rest of the season. For those that don't recall, we didn't make the playoffs.

[bpj]

10, 11, 12, we all knew the Mariners weren't spending any more because they had too huge a chunk invested in Ichiro's incompetent ass to fill in elsewhere.

We were just waiting him out like we are Felix. Just like we couldn't push too hard the last few years with Felix getting paid $25mil he wasnt "earning". It was no different with Ichiro back then.

Plus, we needed power, something you could put in RF. You know, the spot Ichiro was wasting.

[Wishhiker]

10, 11, 12, we all knew the Mariners weren't spending any more because they had too huge a chunk invested in Ichiro's incompetent ass to fill in elsewhere.

We were just waiting him out like we are Felix. Just like we couldn't push too hard the last few years with Felix getting paid $25mil he wasnt "earning". It was no different with Ichiro back then.

Plus, we needed power, something you could put in RF. You know, the spot Ichiro was wasting.

They couldn't find power for DH. They didn't completely develop more than 1 player every 5 years. They spent in free agency on garbage. Your opinions are nonsense. They ignore facts that have just been told to you.

[AT Funchal-Madeira]

Never been a fan of lead off hitter who seldom hit extra base hits, seldom ran up pitch counts, and seldom walked,. He was no Rickey Henderson, that's for sure.