Winker good as gone?

[bpj]

Definitely get and support your point. They do need to just open the wallet.

Buuuuuut, in my opinion, Dipoto was hired and promoted based on an opposite belief. That he could build a competitive roster without approaching a $200M payroll.

I sure hope that isn't the case, but there seems to be evidence to support it. The more I read stuff, especially from DT and you, it makes sense. Do you think their definition of "competitive" is what we just saw? Have a pretty good season, make the playoffs and not look like shit, but go home before the ALCS? I mean, I think there is a very good chance that we would have beaten the Yankees in the ALDS, but I don't see very many scenarios where I can say we are going to win a series over the Astros. And, as long as that is the case, we are always going to be competing for a Wild Card.

I think it was their definition of competitive for this year.

Last season they could have been better and actively chose not to be.

They're getting there.

If I had to guess they see their window opening now and they will make the necessary moves to improve for next season.

They can accomplish both, it's just taken more time than we would like for them to get the right parts in place.

We're a lot closer to the Astros than it feels because they gave so much playing time to Kelenic, Toro, Torrens, etc. this season.

With a few good additions to the roster ahead of them Moore and Haggerty should be the ones getting those at bats going forward.

[roosevelt]

Winker will be here next year. One down season in a new league does not require a knee jerk response.

[Michael K.]

Winker will be here next year. One down season in a new league does not require a knee jerk response.

If the only issue was that he hit like shit this year? I'd agree with you. BUT, if he hit like shit because he is a bad team mate, doesn't work hard and doesn't care? Then fuck him. Send him to Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Washington or Oakland or some other waste land.

[Big_Maple]

If the only issue was that he hit like shit this year? I'd agree with you. BUT, if he hit like shit because he is a bad team mate, doesn't work hard and doesn't care? Then fuck him. Send him to Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Washington or Oakland or some other waste land.

I totally agree. I would like to be rid of him.

But it's a double edged sword. We try to get rid of him for all the reasons you just stated. But who wants to take our turds? The league is not that big that other teams don't know what they're trading for. So who would take him? I would love to trade my 1996 Tercel that leaks oil and fart-fails emission tests for a 2022 Tesla Model X. Sure, the Tercel used to be a nice car, but still...

The other edge of the sword is that a team might want to take him because he is an single-season-removed All-Star who has a history of hitting, and he's on the right side of 30, and he could likely turn it around if he applies himself. But those are the same reasons we would want to hold on to him. The fact that he's an apparently shitty teammate notwithstanding, he's a decent outfielder and a pretty good hitter. Basically, he still has the potential to be the kind of player we'd hope to get if we traded him.

The dude's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Or enema. I can never remember which.

[Michael K.]

Agreed. The problem is, the reason we want to trade him is the reason no one else is gonna want him!

[D-train]

I believe 5 eligible players need to be placed on the 40 man roster by next Tuesday, correct?

Oh do they? I wasn't aware of that, but if you say so I'll go with it and assume you know what you're talking about.

https://theathletic.com/3740190/2022/10 ... decisions/

I appreciate you being 100% onboard with my opinion, but it wasn't really my opinion that I was sharing. However, I didn't disclose this either. But with that said, you know what they say about opinions...

My math says three. I did forget about Marlowe so my two was one short.

Let’s get to the players the Mariners are likely to protect. I think Campbell, Marlowe and Berroa make it.

[D-train]

I get what you are saying, but I am tired of talking about Money with this team. There is a luxory tax, not a fucking salary cap. We all act like they are losing money and need to find more. Fuck that, this ownership group needs to spend less, not trade away guys because they are saving money.

Definitely get and support your point. They do need to just open the wallet.

Buuuuuut, in my opinion, Dipoto was hired and promoted based on an opposite belief. That he could build a competitive roster without approaching a $200M payroll.

Yes, probably. But there could be some nuance there as well. My guess is that they're probably more concerned about long term payroll management than they are about the payroll in one or two particular seasons, and that's why they're not jumping to break the bank in both dollars and years for good but not great players, even though the conventional wisdom is that you need to overpay to get free agents to come here.

Yeah agree and that's why I don't think you can say they can just trade Winker, Marco and Flexen to pay for Judge or someone else who will get a 5-8 year deal. Works for year 1 and then it falls apart. I hate they think like that but its their loot.

[Cascade Kid]

Oh do they? I wasn't aware of that, but if you say so I'll go with it and assume you know what you're talking about.

https://theathletic.com/3740190/2022/10 ... decisions/

I appreciate you being 100% onboard with my opinion, but it wasn't really my opinion that I was sharing. However, I didn't disclose this either. But with that said, you know what they say about opinions...

My math says three. I did forget about Marlowe so my two was one short.

Let’s get to the players the Mariners are likely to protect. I think Campbell, Marlowe and Berroa make it.

Are you sure?

[bpj]

Definitely get and support your point. They do need to just open the wallet.

Buuuuuut, in my opinion, Dipoto was hired and promoted based on an opposite belief. That he could build a competitive roster without approaching a $200M payroll.

Yes, probably. But there could be some nuance there as well. My guess is that they're probably more concerned about long term payroll management than they are about the payroll in one or two particular seasons, and that's why they're not jumping to break the bank in both dollars and years for good but not great players, even though the conventional wisdom is that you need to overpay to get free agents to come here.

Yeah agree and that's why I don't think you can say they can just trade Winker, Marco and Flexen to pay for Judge or someone else who will get a 5-8 year deal. Works for year 1 and then it falls apart. I hate they think like that but its their loot.

To me it is nearly that simple because it's basically just eating up the salary that drops off of the payroll when those guys leave.

It's more just an example of how the same dollars could be better spent in the time they are here than blindly acting like there are no further encumbrances going forward.

The end result is that instead of those guys leaving and the payroll dropping, the payroll doesn't drop the following year, but you already have Aaron Judge on your team, and he was nearly free for the first year because we shed the payroll of guys we didn't really need (Winker/Marco/Flexen) to help pay for it.

If they traded Winker/Flexen/Marco for salary relief and then pay Judge $37.5M, he'd be a payroll hit of $15M the first season.

Marco also gets paid $12M in 2024, so Judges net for 2024 is $25.5M.

Makes sense to me We don't need Winker, Marco or Flexen anyways, especially with Judge here.

[GL_Storm]

Yes, probably. But there could be some nuance there as well. My guess is that they're probably more concerned about long term payroll management than they are about the payroll in one or two particular seasons, and that's why they're not jumping to break the bank in both dollars and years for good but not great players, even though the conventional wisdom is that you need to overpay to get free agents to come here.

Yeah agree and that's why I don't think you can say they can just trade Winker, Marco and Flexen to pay for Judge or someone else who will get a 5-8 year deal. Works for year 1 and then it falls apart. I hate they think like that but its their loot.

To me it is nearly that simple because it's basically just eating up the salary that drops off of the payroll when those guys leave.

It's more just an example of how the same dollars could be better spent in the time they are here than blindly acting like there are no further encumbrances going forward.

The end result is that instead of those guys leaving and the payroll dropping, the payroll doesn't drop the following year, but you already have Aaron Judge on your team, and he was nearly free for the first year because we shed the payroll of guys we didn't really need (Winker/Marco/Flexen) to help pay for it.

If they traded Winker/Flexen/Marco for salary relief and then pay Judge $37.5M, he'd be a payroll hit of $15M the first season.

Marco also gets paid $12M in 2024, so Judges net for 2024 is $25.5M.

Makes sense to me We don't need Winker, Marco or Flexen anyways, especially with Judge here.

Right, but what I was saying is that the Mariners concern wouldn't be so much for that first year as all the other years and the increasing risk as the player ages and declines, but is still taking up 38 mil per year on the payroll.