Mariner Talk Chat Forum

Captain 97 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:12 pm

Bigger bases was primarily for safety. Less chance of collisions and getting stepped on with a bigger bag particularly at 1b.

Yeah, I just remembered hearing some of the unintended consequences of the pitch clock and the bigger bases maybe meaning more stolen bases.

When you start out with a runner on second and 0 outs overtime…..depending on the lineup at that given moment. You would think that bunting could be an excellent option. Even a single to the right side will usually advance the runner. Just utter stupidity to swing out of your shoes

It's been two or three years, and I don't remember the source, but I read an article where GMs and hitters were asked about the reasons everyone was swinging for the fences. Basically it came down to the idea that with everyone throwing in the high 90s with multiple breaking pitches, the odds of hitters sucessfully stringing together the three singles generally needed to score a run were way less than the odd of one guy swinging hard and hitting one out. Makes sense I suppose, although watching a bunch of strikeouts isn't what you'd call fan friendly I guess.

bhofferb wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:23 pm

It's been two or three years, and I don't remember the source, but I read an article where GMs and hitters were asked about the reasons everyone was swinging for the fences. Basically it came down to the idea that with everyone throwing in the high 90s with multiple breaking pitches, the odds of hitters sucessfully stringing together the three singles generally needed to score a run were way less than the odd of one guy swinging hard and hitting one out. Makes sense I suppose, although watching a bunch of strikeouts isn't what you'd call fan friendly I guess.

It's boring baseball. If this is where the game is headed, they better figure out something to fix it or they're going to continue to lose fans.

That is why the banned the shift but doesn't seem to have made much difference.

Michael K. wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:08 pm

GL_Storm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:10 pm

Small ball is a myth. No team really does this anymore.

Wasn't that the original thought on the bigger bases? Would make stealing bags easier? Seems to work for teams when they play us, just not the other way around? LOL

That was part of it. I don't know what the data says if the change has been effective or not, but I would guess probably not, or at least not to any significant degree. The main thing is to just look around the league at the low rate of getting on base compared to previous eras. Pitching is just too good right now. It's sort of an all or nothing offensive game, as best I can tell.

But honestly, it isn't just this last few years. The game moved away from "small ball" decades ago.

What is interesting is that after several decades "Large Ball in the 50s and 60s they went back to small ball in the 70s and 80s. Then PED ushered in the new era of "Chicks dig the Long ball" in the 90s and we have been here ever since....

D-train wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:21 pm

That is why the banned the shift but doesn't seem to have made much difference.

Yes I agree with that. But what happened to the little things like moving runners? Somebody hits a leadoff double. Two ground balls or a ground ball and SF gets a run home. You don't even need another hit. Simple. One hit that's not even a HR plates an easy run as long as you play fundamental baseball. Or in extra innings, you don't need a hit at all! FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL is all it takes to get the run in!

But for whatever reason, fundamental baseball seems to be a thing of the past. You rarely see guys purposely hit behind runners anymore to move them along. Leadoff double and guys are still swinging for the fences.

Why isn't this being stressed more from the coaching staff, particularly in extra innings with the ghost runner, (which is still the bane of my existence by the way). Is it simply all about the next contract and getting paid because you hit 20-30 HR's the previous year? Never mind that you didn't do the little things to help your team win.

I guess I'm just an old codger because I miss the way the game used to be played. It was a lot more fun and entertaining to watch. This HR or strikeout mentality is ruining the game IMO. Give me guys like Pete Rose, Ricky Henderson, Lou Brock, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Rod Carew, etc etc. Give me managers like Billy Martin or Earl Weaver. If you're going to be consistently swinging out of your shoes on every pitch and striking out with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs with the game on the line, you're going to hear about it. And if you don't adjust, you're going to be riding the bench. I don't care how much they're getting paid, or if they're the face of the team. Today we just hear things like, "well that's baseball". Fuck that! Do something about it to change things up! WTF are you getting paid for! A monkey could fill out a lineup card, and probably better than some I've seen lately.

Sorry for the rant. This got me worked up a little.

TraderGary wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:11 pm

D-train wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:21 pm

That is why the banned the shift but doesn't seem to have made much difference.

Yes I agree with that. But what happened to the little things like moving runners? Somebody hits a leadoff double. Two ground balls or a ground ball and SF gets a run home. You don't even need another hit. Simple. One hit that's not even a HR plates an easy run as long as you play fundamental baseball. Or in extra innings, you don't need a hit at all! FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL is all it takes to get the run in!

But for whatever reason, fundamental baseball seems to be a thing of the past. You rarely see guys purposely hit behind runners anymore to move them along. Leadoff double and guys are still swinging for the fences.

Why isn't this being stressed more from the coaching staff, particularly in extra innings with the ghost runner, (which is still the bane of my existence by the way). Is it simply all about the next contract and getting paid because you hit 20-30 HR's the previous year? Never mind that you didn't do the little things to help your team win.

I guess I'm just an old codger because I miss the way the game used to be played. It was a lot more fun and entertaining to watch. This HR or strikeout mentality is ruining the game IMO. Give me guys like Pete Rose, Ricky Henderson, Lou Brock, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Rod Carew, etc etc. Give me managers like Billy Martin or Earl Weaver. If you're going to be consistently swinging out of your shoes on every pitch with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs with the game on the line, you're going to hear about it. And if you don't adjust, you're going to be riding the bench. I don't care how much they're getting paid, or if they're the face of the team. Today we just hear things like, "well that's baseball". Fuck that! Do something about it to change things up! WTF are you getting paid for! A monkey could fill out a lineup card, and probably better than some I've seen lately.

Sorry for the rant. This got me worked up a little.

Because all those things you're talking about simply aren't possible with today's pitching. Nobody 20 years ago threw sliders the way they do today, except maybe Randy Johnson, and they didn't have analytics to tell you hitters' weaknesses with precision.

I think with as hard as pitchers throw these days, particularly relievers, it makes it harder to do things like hit behind the runner.