Honest question about the state of the Mariners

[Seattle or Bust]

You know Acting... I haven't loved your posts over the years, but I appreciate the effort put in this one. Bravo.

[Seattle or Bust]

In your heart of hearts, does anyone think this will change? Do you think, even in the slightest, that this front office will/wants/cares too put a winning product on the field?

No joke, no trolling. Legitimate question.

I used to watch this team pretty regularly, A LONG time ago. I box score watch now, giggle, then move on.

Nothing will change until this team is sold. Fans (I want to call them fuckless twats, but I can't, it's their money) continue to buy tickets and merch, so there is really no financial pressure on ownership to open the pocketbooks.

But, I feel it goes beyond that. Good players (imo) don't want to come here. Why would they? This is were your career dies & numbers drop. Also, the culture. Is there one? I sure the hell don't see one, unless you call rolling over and taking it in the butt? I don't know who to blame. These players get paid a crap ton of money so it's partially on them, but Jerry is a cancer (again, my opinion). He/him/they/she/it only want to hire "yes men". A coach like Lou would have been fired a long time ago for speaking his mind.

/rant off

Sell the fucking team, please!!!

I'm sure the front office would love nothing more than to put a winning product on the field. It would mean more butts in the seats, and more money in their pockets. And that's a concept they just don't seem to grasp. But make no mistake, winning is secondary to profits and always will be with this ownership group. That's just reality.

It's extremely difficult to get a position player in his prime to come here. It's where hitters go to die. If I was lucky enough to be a MLB player, Seattle is the last place I would go. And it has nothing to do with the city or the ballpark. It's just that no matter what I did, I know my numbers are going to take a serious hit, which means less demand and less money when it came time to negotiate my next contract.

As for culture, this organization has a bad reputation throughout the league. Everyone in the league knows Seattle is not about winning a championship. They know we have bad owners and bad upper management. There's no reason anyone of value or in high demand would want to come here unless they're being grossly overpaid. That obviously speaks to the culture that has been cultivated in Seattle. It's just a crap organization, and it starts at the top. The only way that changes is if Stanton decides to sell. But what motivation would he have for doing that? He's printing money and laughing at us all the way to the bank.

I don't know why they don't invoke some science this off season and do some things to adjust park conditions. Bring some smart people in and tell them what they can do to improve offense.

[D-train]

They are 41-28 at home a 96 win pace. They just need to pay for good hitters, that is how you improve the offense but they refuse to do it.

[GL_Storm]

The ballpark definitely makes it less interesting to watch but they're winning percentage at home is good. The ballpark isn't hurting them in that regard. Where they suck is on the road because the pitching isn't good enough away from T mobile to support the horrible offense.

Somebody made a great point about our owners. They all have separate businesses and investment opportunities and while they may think that increasing payroll will increase revenues it might not be the most attractive in terms of ROI.

You would think they would care about the fans their customers and their obligation to the city and county and state but they don't.

But the park also makes building a roster nearly impossible. See for reference: all the average to plus MLB hitters that have come here and been crushed by the park. It's an absurd situation when nearly every move you make for what should be a solid average major league player falls absolutely flat. We talk about DiPoto maybe getting fired by ownership after this year, but I could see him leaving on his own. GM jobs open up every year and I'm sure he'd be on most teams' short list.

[Seattle or Bust]

They are 41-28 at home a 96 win pace. They just need to pay for good hitters, that is how you improve the offense but they refuse to do it.

It's all perception...

Juan Soto had an .827 OPS in San Diego last year... a pitcher's park. People think he had a "down" year, but he dropped a 1.026 OPS on the road.

This year he's 1.003/1.005... you think he's gonna ever consider Seattle knowing playing in Yankee Stadium will immortalize him?

Cal has a fucking .617 OPS at T-Mobile... .801 road... he's going to leave here and immediately remind people of why it sucks to hit here.

They have to do something... put a glass panel behind the entirety of left field (like Miami) to kill the wind and keep the park more insulated. Change the batter's eye.

I can't watch this shit anymore. It's so boring.

[Pharmabro]

It’s almost like Dipoto does stuff to make it look like he is doing something, for example, failing miserably when he started and then telling the M’s fans they need to “take a step back” and rebuild, and then, when this season is essentially over, firing SS. Then he can tell management, “see I’m doing something” when in fact he’s not. This team will continue to be middle of the pack until ownership really wants to win a WS.

It's hard to disagree with this:

[Pharmabro]

In your heart of hearts, does anyone think this will change? Do you think, even in the slightest, that this front office will/wants/cares too put a winning product on the field?

No joke, no trolling. Legitimate question.

I used to watch this team pretty regularly, A LONG time ago. I box score watch now, giggle, then move on.

Nothing will change until this team is sold. Fans (I want to call them fuckless twats, but I can't, it's their money) continue to buy tickets and merch, so there is really no financial pressure on ownership to open the pocketbooks.

But, I feel it goes beyond that. Good players (imo) don't want to come here. Why would they? This is were your career dies & numbers drop. Also, the culture. Is there one? I sure the hell don't see one, unless you call rolling over and taking it in the butt? I don't know who to blame. These players get paid a crap ton of money so it's partially on them, but Jerry is a cancer (again, my opinion). He/him/they/she/it only want to hire "yes men". A coach like Lou would have been fired a long time ago for speaking his mind.

/rant off

Sell the fucking team, please!!!

There are several things at play here:

1. Griffey, when he was drafted by Seattle asked his dad, "Where is Seattle?". I have seen articles on how the big market teams regularly get the most favorable calls from the Umps. "Robo Umps" please. The Umps constantly fuck Seattle. For the health of the sport, this needs to be addressed and fixed. Even against the shitty franchise LAA they constantly gave calls to the Angels in key situations and robbed Seattle of a fair call.

2. The Seattle team has a stupid model they are an extreme pitcher's park who has a hurdle to cover if they want to sign a hitter. How do you convince a hitter to sign here when he can look at the park factor and say I am a .320/.420/.550 elsewhere but with you I am a .280/.390/.450 guy with the least expectation of (singles, doubles, triples, walks) middle of the pack HR, and most K's? And, one of the Umps, corporate, and players least respected clubs. Even if they were willing to pay for Soto/Judge/Ohtani I believe those level of players are concerned about Legacy/Counting stats/ championships. Vs S.E.A.

3. Seattle is South East Alaska. ( to a great number of players, including young Griffey Jr.) It has the longest flight time, miles, every year. I would not care but for a family guy listening to his wife & kids complain about him always being tired the first day back, and having reduced time with them at home? That is a thing.

4. I do think that JD sold them on a I'll run with it 1/2 assed with your old vet core with Felix, Seager, Cano, Cruz, and try to augment them on the cheap. They had some wins they developed Mike Mongomery and tried to flip him for a bat (Fatso). Wade Miley profiled well as a lefty before they shortened left field but had an 81 ERA+. 2 years later he would have a 159 ERA+ in Chicago.

5. JD did a pretty decent job of augmenting the old vet core in the 1st couple years, but the Vet-core's most key element fell apart.
2016 86-76 (rotation)
Hisashi Iwakuma 4.12 ERA
SP Félix Hernández 3.82 ERA (106 OPS+ ) adjust off of this for the others
SP Taijuan Walker 4.22 ERA
SP James Paxton* 3.79 ERA
SP Wade Miley* 4.98 ERA
SP Nate Karns 5.15 ERA

They had a good BP, decent offense (107 OPS+)
Overall pitching was a 102 ERA+
But 3 big issues:
Felix was flopping just a 106 ERA+ and 150 innings vs 200+ of CY contention. If Felix was CY Felix they were in the playoffs.

Miley and Karns were about an 80 ERA+. Karns was a 106 and 108 elsewhere sandwiched by our year of shit. Miley had 120's before and like a 160 ERA after.Karns could have at least 2.5 wins, Miley 4, Felix 4 96 wins and we are in.

The modern teams always has somebody's under-performing vs reasonable expectation's:
2022=playoffs but we beat the Jays and were in every game vs the Astros: We could have been much better if these guys were as advertised: Winker, Frazier, Toro, JK, Lewis, TT, Ray, Diego Castillo

2023 France, Wong, Saurez, (Teo and Julio were OK but also had down years)
2024 Mitch's, France, JP, Julio, Jorge, ( Brash, Santos, Yimi, Thronton, Stanek, Speier,)

Predicting athletic performance is hard to do day to day, year to year, and of course over the course of these 5, 6, 10, 15 year spans of contracts, drafted CC years? They should put some nice glass panels in to block the cold Seattle winds early in the year. Fix the dang batters eye or just close the "dome" enough to shade the batter's eye. Fk this Coor's field of pitcher's parks!

[TraderGary]

In your heart of hearts, does anyone think this will change? Do you think, even in the slightest, that this front office will/wants/cares too put a winning product on the field?

No joke, no trolling. Legitimate question.

I used to watch this team pretty regularly, A LONG time ago. I box score watch now, giggle, then move on.

Nothing will change until this team is sold. Fans (I want to call them fuckless twats, but I can't, it's their money) continue to buy tickets and merch, so there is really no financial pressure on ownership to open the pocketbooks.

But, I feel it goes beyond that. Good players (imo) don't want to come here. Why would they? This is were your career dies & numbers drop. Also, the culture. Is there one? I sure the hell don't see one, unless you call rolling over and taking it in the butt? I don't know who to blame. These players get paid a crap ton of money so it's partially on them, but Jerry is a cancer (again, my opinion). He/him/they/she/it only want to hire "yes men". A coach like Lou would have been fired a long time ago for speaking his mind.

/rant off

Sell the fucking team, please!!!

I'm sure the front office would love nothing more than to put a winning product on the field. It would mean more butts in the seats, and more money in their pockets. And that's a concept they just don't seem to grasp. But make no mistake, winning is secondary to profits and always will be with this ownership group. That's just reality.

It's extremely difficult to get a position player in his prime to come here. It's where hitters go to die. If I was lucky enough to be a MLB player, Seattle is the last place I would go. And it has nothing to do with the city or the ballpark. It's just that no matter what I did, I know my numbers are going to take a serious hit, which means less demand and less money when it came time to negotiate my next contract.

As for culture, this organization has a bad reputation throughout the league. Everyone in the league knows Seattle is not about winning a championship. They know we have bad owners and bad upper management. There's no reason anyone of value or in high demand would want to come here unless they're being grossly overpaid. That obviously speaks to the culture that has been cultivated in Seattle. It's just a crap organization, and it starts at the top. The only way that changes is if Stanton decides to sell. But what motivation would he have for doing that? He's printing money and laughing at us all the way to the bank.

I don't know why they don't invoke some science this off season and do some things to adjust park conditions. Bring some smart people in and tell them what they can do to improve offense.

I think that would be a good start. I also think GL_Storm made some great points regarding the ballpark.

[TraderGary]

They are 41-28 at home a 96 win pace. They just need to pay for good hitters, that is how you improve the offense but they refuse to do it.

I agree to an extent, but I don't think it's that simple. Whenever they bring a hitter in here with a history of success, their numbers take a nosedive. And it's not just an isolated incidence. It happens nearly every damn time with a very few notable exceptions.

The park is a major factor, and they need to take a serious look at that in the offseason. There's far too much history and evidence to argue otherwise.

[Hy Feiber]

They are 41-28 at home a 96 win pace. They just need to pay for good hitters, that is how you improve the offense but they refuse to do it.

I agree to an extent, but I don't think it's that simple. Whenever they bring a hitter in here with a history of success, their numbers take a nosedive. And it's not just an isolated incidence. It happens nearly every damn time with a very few notable exceptions.

The park is a major factor, and they need to take a serious look at that in the offseason. There's far too much history and evidence to argue otherwise.

Just curious, what was the batter’s eye like in 2001, when they won 116 games?

There was a Marine Layer then.