Jerry Dipoto and Position Players

[Captain 97]

How does this compare to the results produced by a good GM?

Here's Jack Z's drafts of position players only:

2009: 28 drafted, 7 made it including Kyle Seager, Dustin Ackley and Nick Franklin
2010: 18 drafted, 2 made it, nobody of note
2011: 23 drafted, 3 made it including Brad Miller
2012: 21 drafted, 6 made it including Chris Taylor, Mike Zunino and Mike Yastrzemski (I didn't know we drafted him!)
2013: 24 drafted, 5 made it including Tyler O'Neill
2014: 19 drafted, 1 made it, nobody of note
2015: 15 drafted, 2 made it, nobody of note

That's rather blah but better than DiPoto. Here's Bill Bavasi's drafts (Mariners only):

2004: 30 drafted, 4 made it including Michael Saunders
2005: 23 drafted, 2 made it, nobody of note
2006: 16 drafted, 1 made it, nobody of note
2007: 16 drafted, 1 made it, nobody of note
2008: 24 drafted, 0 made it

HOLY SHIT, that's beyond horrendous. Let's try Pat Gillick's drafts:

1999: 23 drafted, 4 made it including Willie F. Bloomquist
2000: 23 drafted, 4 made it, nobody of note
2001: 26 drafted, 2 made it, nobody of note
2002: 27 drafted, 5 made it, nobody of note
2003: 20 drafted, 1 made it, Adam Jones

That's almost as bad as Bavasi, thankfully Gillick had other talents.

I looked up the drafts in which we selected Junior and A-Rod were selected and in those drafts no other position players of note made it to the bigs.

Looks like Jack Z is actually the best of these drafters and the best drafting the franchise did was through much of the '80s.

Far be it from me to defend Bavasi but If I remember correctly I think they had 3 years in a row without a first round pick during his tenure.

[Captain 97]

Here are all of the Players with over 5 WAR drafted in the American League since Dipoto took over the M's

Oakland/Sacramento/Vegas
Sean Murphy 15.5 WAR
Garrett Mitchel 5.7 WAR
Tyler Soderstrom 5.7 WAR
Zach Gelof 6.0 WAR
Nick Kurtz 8.7 WAR

Baltimore
Austin Hays 10.2 WAR
Adley Rutschman 16.7 WAR
Gunnar Henderson 22.4 WAR
Jordan Westburg 5.1 WAR

Kansas City
Nicky Lopez 5.5 WAR
Kyle Isbel 7.1 WAR
Bobby Witt Jr. 27.1 WAR
Vinnie Pasquentino 6.0 WAR

Minnesota
Royce Lewis 5.4 WAR
Brent Rooker 7.9 WAR
Ryan Jeffers 11.0 WAR
Spencer Steer 5.4 WAR

Detroit
Riley Greene 12.6 WAR
Kerry Carpenter 5.8 WAR
Dilon Dingler 7.4 WAR
Kevin McGonigle 5.3 WAR

Anaheim
Brandon Marsh 11.0 WAR
David Hamilto 5.1 WAR
Zach Neto 14.2 WAR

Toronto
Bo Bichette 21.5 WAR
Cavin Biggio 6.8 WAR
Shea Langaliers 11.3 WAR

Texas
Josh Jung 6.4 WAR
Evan Cartr 6.1 WAR
Wyatt Langford 12.0 WAR

Houston
Jake Meyers 7.4
Jeremy Pena 21.5

Tampa Bay
Nathaniel Lowe 13.2 WAR
Taylor Walls 12.2 WAR

Cleveland
Ernie Clement 9.2 WAR
Steven Kwan 19.8 WAR

Chicago
Jake Burger 6.2 WAR
Colson Montgomery 5.4 WAR

New York
Anthony Volpe 9.4 WAR
Josh Smith 7.1 WAR

Boston
Jaren Duran 16.0 WAR

Seattle
Cal Raleigh 18.3

[Bil522]

Dave Dombroski, Brian Cashman, and AJ Preller are the GM's that have roughly the same amount of time as Jerry the Dip

[GL_Storm]

Care to share or are we supposed to guess? lol

The thread figured it out. You can't just point out results in a vacuum and call it analysis. Minimally, you need some sort of baseline to compare those results to before you even dig into all of the complicating factors that make this sort of analysis incredibly difficult.

Its blatantly obvious that only 1 position players over 5 WAR in 11 drafts for the M's is piss poor.
How about Jeff Luhnow Astros GM from 2012-2019


Carlos Correa 47.0 WAR
Ramon Lauerano 17.4 WAR
Alex Bregman 46.1 WAR
Kyle Tucker 28.0 WAR
Myles Straw 10.4 WAR
Jake Myers 7.4 WAR
Chas McCormick 5.8 WAR
Josh Rojas 5.1 WAR
Jeremy Pena 21.5 WAR

That's 9 players in 8 years who managed more than 5 WAR.

I don't think it's so obvious. For one thing, separating out position players from pitchers is selection bias. Are pitchers not part of the game? You're taking the thing that they're acknowledged as being good at and saying that doesn't count when you know that every single draft, for every organization, is a choice about how to allocate scarce resources (draft picks) between pitching prospects and positional prospects.

To be clear, I don't necessarily disagree with your broader point. I just don't think it's as obvious as you make it out to be. But I've pointed out in other threads what seems to be a relative scarcity of significant position players coming up through the Mariners farm system over the years, from the Woody Woodward years and beyond.

[Captain 97]

The thread figured it out. You can't just point out results in a vacuum and call it analysis. Minimally, you need some sort of baseline to compare those results to before you even dig into all of the complicating factors that make this sort of analysis incredibly difficult.

Its blatantly obvious that only 1 position players over 5 WAR in 11 drafts for the M's is piss poor.
How about Jeff Luhnow Astros GM from 2012-2019


Carlos Correa 47.0 WAR
Ramon Lauerano 17.4 WAR
Alex Bregman 46.1 WAR
Kyle Tucker 28.0 WAR
Myles Straw 10.4 WAR
Jake Myers 7.4 WAR
Chas McCormick 5.8 WAR
Josh Rojas 5.1 WAR
Jeremy Pena 21.5 WAR

That's 9 players in 8 years who managed more than 5 WAR.

I don't think it's so obvious. For one thing, separating out position players from pitchers is selection bias. Are pitchers not part of the game? You're taking the thing that they're acknowledged as being good at and saying that doesn't count when you know that every single draft, for every organization, is a choice about how to allocate scarce resources (draft picks) between pitching prospects and positional prospects.

To be clear, I don't necessarily disagree with your broader point. I just don't think it's as obvious as you make it out to be. But I've pointed out in other threads what seems to be a relative scarcity of significant position players coming up through the Mariners farm system over the years, from the Woody Woodward years and beyond.

You can't get any more obvious than being dead last in the League at drafting position players.
Not saying the pitching side doesn't count. I am saying its outweighed by the fact that he is literally the worst offensive talent evaluator in Baseball.