Honest question about the state of the Mariners

[DavidGee24]

Management continually goes after players that they KNOW will be horrible in a Mariner uniform. This off-season they acquired Garver, Haniger, Urias and Zevala KNOWING that they would be horrible. And of course this was compounded by Polanco and Raley being good last year but getting Mariner'd as well.

They put the final nail in the coffin when they traded for Justin Turner, again, KNOWING that he would be horrible. It added another dead spot in the order AND eliminated any chance that they would try to acquire a top-tier hitter.

Maybe a .500 season will finally be a wake-up call. If it is, something had better be done right now while our core players are still under club control.

[acctingman]

They are 41-28 at home a 96 win pace. They just need to pay for good hitters, that is how you improve the offense but they refuse to do it.

I agree to an extent, but I don't think it's that simple. Whenever they bring a hitter in here with a history of success, their numbers take a nosedive. And it's not just an isolated incidence. It happens nearly every damn time with a very few notable exceptions.

The park is a major factor, and they need to take a serious look at that in the offseason. There's far too much history and evidence to argue otherwise.

Just curious, what was the batter’s eye like in 2001, when they won 116 games?

There was a Marine Layer then.

That's easy!
Lou was the manager
Different ownership
WAY better players

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

The Mariners are done this season. They look flat and very uninterested in what's going on.

As Cal said a couple months ago, no energy.

[Michael K.]

Management continually goes after players that they KNOW will be horrible in a Mariner uniform. This off-season they acquired Garver, Haniger, Urias and Zevala KNOWING that they would be horrible. And of course this was compounded by Polanco and Raley being good last year but getting Mariner'd as well.

They put the final nail in the coffin when they traded for Justin Turner, again, KNOWING that he would be horrible. It added another dead spot in the order AND eliminated any chance that they would try to acquire a top-tier hitter.

Maybe a .500 season will finally be a wake-up call. If it is, something had better be done right now while our core players are still under club control.

Yep, and with this ownership group and leadership? Nothing will change. Funny reading about how great Winker is now. Remember when he was a cancer? I guess the Mets found the cure for cancer?

[auroraave]

I'm rarely ever on this forum but saw this and thought I would add my 2 cent perspective that you didn't ask for.

The Mariners are a consumable product - like everything else you choose to spend your precious disposable income on; netflix, craft beer, pizza, or tampons if you are a 49er fan. Nothing more, nothing less.

I check in on them and follow - if they are competitive. Money is tight and time is too short to waste on garbage products - or products that are permanently mired in mediocrity. Life is too short. Fair weather fan? You bet your f*cking ass I am. Put a winner on the table, make it worth my time - because I got other choices in life. Acting like you gotta 'support the team no matter' what is a laughably outdated idea when they are merely trying to bankrupt you with $30 parking and $25 beers - and that's after you paid for tickets. C'mon, man. Nah, that shit don't fly with me.

The problem with the Mariners is that winning is not the same to the organization as it is to the fans - a profitable bottom line vs competing for actual championships. This is not going to change because you still support this by consuming their awful product. They are a pizza franchise that uses cheap ingredients in an attempt to churn out profits - not wins. hey, that's their choice and you need to be profitable to survive, so I get it.

But....

Imagine this franchise had Paul Allen bought them. Imagine what could be when ownership flexes it's civic pride. Nope, instead, this is a team of nickel and dime profits and trading for a circling-the-drain Justin Turner when he solves nothing but filling a seat on the next flight to Oakland.

Remember - this is the same organization that bought a new $3 million dollar scoreboard - for the lowest scoring team in the league. I cannot think of anything that more perfectly encapsulates this laughably moribund franchise. A new scoreboard for a team that doesn't score.

You couldn't make that up if you tried.

[Michael K.]

Well said AA. Like I said, nothing will change with this leadership group. Why? Because somehow, they continue to make $. Seattle fans aren't fairweather at all. Many still want the Sonics back! The Seahawks might have been the worst NFL Franchise of the 90s, and the Mariners fill the stadium despite going to the playoffs once over the course of two and a half decades!

Maybe that's the problem? Hard to say. I still say they could make money if they actually made an effort to be more than just competitive, but it sure seems they disagree, and don't give a shit what people like me think.

[Big_Maple]

I have very little original thought to add to this thread; you all did a good job of pointing out the obvious factors. These include (but are not limited to):

• The M's shed payroll and don't go after big name, marquis players. It is still a profitable franchise even with the Roots Sports fracas and ownership bemoaning their horrible financial losses. The only conclusion is that they aren't serious about winning. Yeah, they aren't the Mets or the Dodgers, but they could still pull off Texas Rangers-sized contracts to seriously move the needle. But they won't. Ergo, they are only interested in profits, and/or they aren't serious about winning.

• Let's say ownership really wants to pay a metric shit-ton of money to attract players - they won't come for other reasons. The batters eye, or the Mariner layer, or the extra travel, or the fact that most MLB players couldn't find Seattle on a map of the US - who knows. I was reading an article today on mlb.com about Soto's likely landing spots. Of course it will come down to the Mets or the Yankees, with the Dodgers and Nationals being the dark horses. In terms of salary, Soto's floor is expected to be $500MM, and if the Yanks pony up for that, they will be paying $120MM for Judge, Soto and Cole. What the serious fuck, folks? That is a serious franchise who cares about winning at all costs. We get Mitch "I couldn't hit a beachball with a wiffle bat" Garver.

• International players from Japan and Korea can find Seattle on a map, the city is the shortest flight away from their homeland, and they know that Seattle has a vibrant Asian community, but they still don't come here - even with Ichiro in the front office promising them lap dances and all the maneki-nekos they can fit in a duffle bag. In the last 5 years we have missed out on Ohtani (twice), Suzuki, Yoshida, Senga, Imanaga, Matsui and Yamamoto. We only managead to land Kikuchi who went on to become an arguably better player after Seattle.

• We don't have a winning culture in Seattle - at least not with baseball. Seriously. Dipoto couldn't orchestrate a wet dream, management hamstrings him every step of the way, and Servias grinned his way through 9 seasons of bumblefuckery. What do fans do? They flock to discussion boards and bitch about it and write poignant blogs and clever Tweets. This level of ineptitude would fly for about 10 milliseconds in New York where they would have someone's head on a pike outside Yankee stadium. We pucker our rectums in disgust, and then march to T-Mobile to spend $200 on tickets and $150 on shitty beer and Ivar's. And we celebrate one abbreviated stint in the post-season in 20 years like we're world champions.

• We are pissing away a historic starting rotation. Seriously. We have one of the best rotations in baseball in recent memory, and we are a .500 team heading into September. Anyone who thinks this season is salvageable is delusional - it's over folks. And Woo, and Kirby, and Miller, and Gilbert, and Castillo will be sitting at home in a month watching other teams in the playoffs - and while they're doing that, they will be rightfully fuming at the fact that they pitched their asses off and got no run support. And the second they hit free agency, every one of them will pull out like a practicing Catholic. Seriously - books will be written about our starting rotation years from now, and they will all scratch their heads at why the Mariners frittered away this generational group of pitchers without investing in an offense that could take them to the playoffs.

So yeah, Scotty is gone, but it's too little, too late. For this season, at least. There is zero evidence that they will go after any big name players in the offseason, so it's more of the rinse and repeat.

Like many of you, I stopped watching games months ago. Why bother? I read the box scores, shake my head, and move on with my day. Am I fairweather? I think not. Just a realist. Fairweather fans jump on the bandwagon when the team is kicking ass. When, in the last 20 years, have the Mariners given any of us reason to jump on the bandwagon, instead of off?

[Hy Feiber]

I agree to an extent, but I don't think it's that simple. Whenever they bring a hitter in here with a history of success, their numbers take a nosedive. And it's not just an isolated incidence. It happens nearly every damn time with a very few notable exceptions.

The park is a major factor, and they need to take a serious look at that in the offseason. There's far too much history and evidence to argue otherwise.

Just curious, what was the batter’s eye like in 2001, when they won 116 games?

There was a Marine Layer then.

That's easy!
Lou was the manager
Different ownership
WAY better players

Then it ain’t the batter’s eye!

It’s the batters.

[Hy Feiber]

The Mariners are done this season. They look flat and very uninterested in what's going on.

As Cal said a couple months ago, no energy.

If you complain about “low energy,” how bout you hit more than .200, with say, 190 projected K’s?

[Hy Feiber]

I'm rarely ever on this forum but saw this and thought I would add my 2 cent perspective that you didn't ask for.

The Mariners are a consumable product - like everything else you choose to spend your precious disposable income on; netflix, craft beer, pizza, or tampons if you are a 49er fan. Nothing more, nothing less.

I check in on them and follow - if they are competitive. Money is tight and time is too short to waste on garbage products - or products that are permanently mired in mediocrity. Life is too short. Fair weather fan? You bet your f*cking ass I am. Put a winner on the table, make it worth my time - because I got other choices in life. Acting like you gotta 'support the team no matter' what is a laughably outdated idea when they are merely trying to bankrupt you with $30 parking and $25 beers - and that's after you paid for tickets. C'mon, man. Nah, that shit don't fly with me.

The problem with the Mariners is that winning is not the same to the organization as it is to the fans - a profitable bottom line vs competing for actual championships. This is not going to change because you still support this by consuming their awful product. They are a pizza franchise that uses cheap ingredients in an attempt to churn out profits - not wins. hey, that's their choice and you need to be profitable to survive, so I get it.

But....

Imagine this franchise had Paul Allen bought them. Imagine what could be when ownership flexes it's civic pride. Nope, instead, this is a team of nickel and dime profits and trading for a circling-the-drain Justin Turner when he solves nothing but filling a seat on the next flight to Oakland.

Remember - this is the same organization that bought a new $3 million dollar scoreboard - for the lowest scoring team in the league. I cannot think of anything that more perfectly encapsulates this laughably moribund franchise. A new scoreboard for a team that doesn't score.

You couldn't make that up if you tried.

I’ll never be able to fathom how they finish 2001 tied for the greatest record in baseball history, and can’t make the playoffs again for 21 years!!!

And they did out Without Jr, Jay, Randy, and Tino!