Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

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GL_Storm
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by GL_Storm » Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:10 am

bpj wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:49 am
GL_Storm wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:29 am
If Detroit deals him, which they should, Javier Baez will be an albatross to whichever team takes that contract. He's the type of player second division teams sign when they're desperate to prove to their fans that they're serious about winning.

Right now, we're reeling from having run straight into Yordan Alvarez, the monster that haunts pitcher's dreams. The answer isn't to bring in some overrated strikeout lord that can't take a walk and then be burdened with that salary for the next five years while the player slowly declines from plus to average to bad and then finally gets released with a year and a half left on his deal. That's not a smart move.

This is not to say that I know what the smart moves are. Trading for Ian Happ might be a good one. I also wonder how the Cubs are feeling about Seiya Suzuki. I think getting at least one elite reliever would make sense. Ideally, several bullpen upgrades would happen. Look for the teams that are in limbo right now, like both Chicago teams, Minnesota, Milwaukee, KC, maybe Tampa Bay.

I'd love to see them sign Josh Bell but the one thing that worries me about that is the general lack of enthusiasm for the player, despite pretty good numbers in 2021 and 2022. Washington basically gave him away as a sweetener in the Juan Soto deal and I just wonder what the issue there is.
The proposal I made was a ~$0 net difference compared to what they're paying now to Marco/Flexen/Winker/White- none of whom are doing us any good- with Detroit picking up the tab on Baez's final ~two years so if he declines further, dump him.

If they think they're going to get a higher return from Marco/Flexen/Winker/White for the same $'s than what they'll get from Baez, by all means, keep them.

It's basically an answer to the, "Well who's going to take on Marco and Flexens salary" question. There are viable scenarios out there.

Comes down to, Is Baez more valuable to us at a cost of $80M, or are Marco/Flexen/Winker/White more valuable to us for $80M?

Probably neither. But since it's a one or the other proposition- and the money is already spent essentially- I'd take Baez and the 3 vacant spots on the 40 man roster where they can add more talent. Even if he ends up as your UTIL by the end, that's probably more of a return than we're going to see from the other 4 guys.
Maybe you should call up Justin Hollander and see if he'll take a look at your resume. :)

But seriously, I do see the logic of your proposal and if it worked out that way I would be fine with it. My opposition to Baez is more broad in the sense that I see him as the exact type of player that teams overpay for. That high strikeout, low walk combo combined with a declining batting average just spells disaster to me, whereas Marco and Flexen still have actual utility on this team and the commitments aren't long term. Winker is obviously an oops at this point, but maybe they can offload him by paying half his salary or something.

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D-train
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by D-train » Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:59 am

fwiw Marco/White/Winker for Baez is almost and exact match. My issue is that we then have a SS/2B combo of 670s OPS for years to come.
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by D-train » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:01 am

The other issue is would massively fly in the face of their cute Dominate the Zone philosophy.
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by D-train » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:03 am

btw this post season hasn't been great for JDs watershed Padres trade has it. France with a OPS in the 600s, complete suck from Munoz and Torrens and TT haven't even played...
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bpj
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by bpj » Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:53 pm

D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:59 am
fwiw Marco/White/Winker for Baez is almost and exact match. My issue is that we then have a SS/2B combo of 670s OPS for years to come.

tv21.JPG
I would just look at it as swapping out Marco/Flexen/Winker for a replacement for Toro that isn't an abyss.

Crawford/Moore/Baez > Crawford/Moore/Toro

Actually makes a pretty decent league average Middle Infield without deploying any additional payroll. Replaces Adam Frazier so his $8M can also be reallocated.

They could still go after the free agent SS, nothing about their payroll would change except they're swapping bad dollars for bad dollars.

It was funny watching the announcers rip on Baezs approach in the Detroit series- after he had already hit a homerun. Was almost comical. He just hit a homerun... but too bad he doesn't draw more walks!

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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by D-train » Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:58 pm

Yeah just thinking about how to match the Astros 10 WAR at those two positions. Would be lucky to get 5 out of that combo. I think we need one of the FA SSs for sure.
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by D-train » Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:59 pm

bpj wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:53 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:59 am
fwiw Marco/White/Winker for Baez is almost and exact match. My issue is that we then have a SS/2B combo of 670s OPS for years to come.

tv21.JPG
I would just look at it as swapping out Marco/Flexen/Winker for a replacement for Toro that isn't an abyss.

Crawford/Moore/Baez > Crawford/Moore/Toro

Actually makes a pretty decent league average Middle Infield without deploying any additional payroll. Replaces Adam Frazier so his $8M can also be reallocated.

They could still go after the free agent SS, nothing about their payroll would change except they're swapping bad dollars for bad dollars.

It was funny watching the announcers rip on Baezs approach in the Detroit series- after he had already hit a homerun. Was almost comical. He just hit a homerun... but too bad he doesn't draw more walks!
Mariner announcers I presume?
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bpj
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by bpj » Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:18 pm

D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:59 pm
bpj wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:53 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:59 am
fwiw Marco/White/Winker for Baez is almost and exact match. My issue is that we then have a SS/2B combo of 670s OPS for years to come.

tv21.JPG
I would just look at it as swapping out Marco/Flexen/Winker for a replacement for Toro that isn't an abyss.

Crawford/Moore/Baez > Crawford/Moore/Toro

Actually makes a pretty decent league average Middle Infield without deploying any additional payroll. Replaces Adam Frazier so his $8M can also be reallocated.

They could still go after the free agent SS, nothing about their payroll would change except they're swapping bad dollars for bad dollars.

It was funny watching the announcers rip on Baezs approach in the Detroit series- after he had already hit a homerun. Was almost comical. He just hit a homerun... but too bad he doesn't draw more walks!
Mariner announcers I presume?
Yeah, they were making fun of how he had seen 10 pitches and swung at 8 of them or something.

Meanwhile one of them had already been parked over the fence.

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bpj
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by bpj » Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:27 pm

D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:03 am
btw this post season hasn't been great for JDs watershed Padres trade has it. France with a OPS in the 600s, complete suck from Munoz and Torrens and TT haven't even played...
Not to mention we could have used Edwin Diaz a little more than Kelenic.

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bpj
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Re: Carlos Correa to Richen Pool of FAs

Post by bpj » Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:47 pm

D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:58 pm
Yeah just thinking about how to match the Astros 10 WAR at those two positions. Would be lucky to get 5 out of that combo. I think we need one of the FA SSs for sure.
I think we could match it- overall- by still adding to the team with the additional payroll we didn't spend on a $30M SS.

Crawford, Moore and Baez were worth 6.1 fWAR this season with Moore being held down by playing OF.

They'd each get 450-500 PA instead of 600.

Subtract Toro's -.7 WAR from the mix and we're not looking so bad in the middle infield for a net investment of $0 with all available payroll still there to be spent.

I'm not a fan of Baez either, but if it's a choice between paying the rest of Marco/Flexen/Winker/Whites contracts or taking on Baez for the same cost, I'll take the UTIL guy and the 3 vacant 40 man roster spots.

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