Finally! Official Hot Stove League Thread

[ice99]

If he turns that down, he really wants out of NY.

[Vogelbomb]

His BOLD prediction for the M's off season was that the M's sign Jose Abreu.

And then he comes out with this nonsense.

HOW DO PEOPLE GET PAID TO COME UP WITH THIS SHIT!?

Not only that... but 2x Athletic writers got together to brainstorm this excellence. Jesus fuck.

The Mariners don't need massive upgrades. Yes, I'm for Turner/Bogaerts and Abreu, re-signing Mitch, but they could go smaller and still see massive leaps in total runs scored and defensive runs allowed dropping.

[bpj]

"Full time DH" is such a stupid term. It's not what most of us have asked for anyways.

That's just what guys like Luke Arkins have called Kyle Schwarber because they're not very smart.

If the M's can fit Carlos Santana on a roster with Abe Toro, then they can fit a guy who would take the bulk of the DH duties and play the field when he's not at DH.

I don't even know how that's questionable.

Dipoto just doesn't want to spend $15M for a guy to hit when all of his guys already know how to swing a bat. He doesn't understand the value of not putting a backup player in the game when a starter gets the day off.

He's not learning from his mistakes if those are his true intentions.

He values the bench players getting playing time over having a DH. It's mind blowing.

[GL_Storm]

Thinking about a possible trade with Toronto, I went digging through their prospect list and found this guy: https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... rwit000spe

He's currently #13 on their Top 30 by Baseball America. He's about to turn 25 so definitely a sleeper prospect, but he hits lefty and put up pretty good AA numbers last year, though not so good at AAA. His K/BB ratio is pretty intriguing. He's the type of player that I would try to get added on to a deal if I were going to trade with Toronto. He'll need to be rostered which probably makes him more expendable for Toronto.

[D-train]

Thinking about a possible trade with Toronto, I went digging through their prospect list and found this guy: https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... rwit000spe

He's currently #13 on their Top 30 by Baseball America. He's about to turn 25 so definitely a sleeper prospect, but he hits lefty and put up pretty good AA numbers last year, though not so good at AAA. His K/BB ratio is pretty intriguing. He's the type of player that I would try to get added on to a deal if I were going to trade with Toronto. He'll need to be rostered which probably makes him more expendable for Toronto.

Not bad but compare him to Kerry Carpenter.

[Seattle or Bust]

His BOLD prediction for the M's off season was that the M's sign Jose Abreu.

And then he comes out with this nonsense.

HOW DO PEOPLE GET PAID TO COME UP WITH THIS SHIT!?

Not only that... but 2x Athletic writers got together to brainstorm this excellence. Jesus fuck.

The Mariners don't need massive upgrades. Yes, I'm for Turner/Bogaerts and Abreu, re-signing Mitch, but they could go smaller and still see massive leaps in total runs scored and defensive runs allowed dropping.

Ya, the Mariners don't need massive upgrades if their goal is to win 85-90 games a season, finish 2nd in the division, and get ousted in the divisional round. So long as they get to dance in a circle around the infield 85-90 games a year and the Astros take the AL... fantastic.

They aren't overcoming 16 games and a run differential of nearly 200 by signing a 36-year-old DH who just hung the lowest homer total career and trading for Santiago Espinal to play 2B. They'd just be wasting money and assets to be really no better off because they're still nowhere close to winning the division. Moves like this move the needle about as much as adding Frazier and Winker.

[GL_Storm]

His BOLD prediction for the M's off season was that the M's sign Jose Abreu.

And then he comes out with this nonsense.

HOW DO PEOPLE GET PAID TO COME UP WITH THIS SHIT!?

Not only that... but 2x Athletic writers got together to brainstorm this excellence. Jesus fuck.

The Mariners don't need massive upgrades. Yes, I'm for Turner/Bogaerts and Abreu, re-signing Mitch, but they could go smaller and still see massive leaps in total runs scored and defensive runs allowed dropping.

Ya, the Mariners don't need massive upgrades if their goal is to win 85-90 games a season, finish 2nd in the division, and get ousted in the divisional round. So long as they get to dance in a circle around the infield 85-90 games a year and the Astros take the AL... fantastic.

They aren't overcoming 16 games and a run differential of nearly 200 by signing a 36-year-old DH who just hung the lowest homer total career and trading for Santiago Espinal to play 2B. They'd just be wasting money and assets to be really no better off because they're still nowhere close to winning the division. Moves like this move the needle about as much as adding Frazier and Winker.

I think there's an argument for marginal improvements, trying to improve the overall roster vs. bringing in an aircraft carrier. I think that's the Billy Beane way of adjusting year after year with basically no money to spend. The problem, from my perspective, is that I've never seen Jerry DiPoto have that sort of roster acumen. But you could do that, for example, by bringing in a better backup catcher than Tom Murphy, or trading for Ian Happ, which allows you to push JK to the 4th outfielder role, or upgrading your already good bullpen. This is the type of approach where a trade for a player like Espinal makes sense, and then you can sign Adam Frazier as a bench player, which should keep Toro off the roster.

I'm not saying this is a surefire way to beat the Astros, but it is a valid approach to improving your team. It just isn't clear to me that Jerry DiPoto has this sort of strategic mindset when it comes to roster construction.

[D-train]

I am good with a happy medium approach. Don't have to sign the top 3 FAs for almost a billion but can't go half ass with the offense like he has EVERY single year he has been here.

[Seattle or Bust]

The Mariners don't need massive upgrades. Yes, I'm for Turner/Bogaerts and Abreu, re-signing Mitch, but they could go smaller and still see massive leaps in total runs scored and defensive runs allowed dropping.

Ya, the Mariners don't need massive upgrades if their goal is to win 85-90 games a season, finish 2nd in the division, and get ousted in the divisional round. So long as they get to dance in a circle around the infield 85-90 games a year and the Astros take the AL... fantastic.

They aren't overcoming 16 games and a run differential of nearly 200 by signing a 36-year-old DH who just hung the lowest homer total career and trading for Santiago Espinal to play 2B. They'd just be wasting money and assets to be really no better off because they're still nowhere close to winning the division. Moves like this move the needle about as much as adding Frazier and Winker.

I think there's an argument for marginal improvements, trying to improve the overall roster vs. bringing in an aircraft carrier. I think that's the Billy Beane way of adjusting year after year with basically no money to spend. The problem, from my perspective, is that I've never seen Jerry DiPoto have that sort of roster acumen. But you could do that, for example, by bringing in a better backup catcher than Tom Murphy, or trading for Ian Happ, which allows you to push JK to the 4th outfielder role, or upgrading your already good bullpen. This is the type of approach where a trade for a player like Espinal makes sense, and then you can sign Adam Frazier as a bench player, which should keep Toro off the roster.

I'm not saying this is a surefire way to beat the Astros, but it is a valid approach to improving your team. It just isn't clear to me that Jerry DiPoto has this sort of strategic mindset when it comes to roster construction.

Money ball gets you to a certain point and I believe is no longer viable for winning a World Championship in today's era.

The Rays are about the closest example that we have in today's game and they were frankly outmatched in their WS appearance and many playoff series over the years. The same can be said for the recent A's teams that got to the playoffs but didn't have the fire power to push themselves over the hump.

It might improve the team, but what's the point if you're always falling short? The goal should be to win a World Series. There are teams in this league that are willing to spend the money and get the players in to make that happen.

And as much as it sucks to say, the Mariners current young core is not as good as the Astros when they did their rebuild and it's not as good now.

Julio is elite... but Ty France is not Alex Bregman or Jose Altuve. Jarred Kelenic is not George Springer or Kyle Tucker. JP Crawford is not Carlos Correa or Jeremy Pena. We don't have anyone that even sniffs Yordan Alvarez's potential.

They are just way more talented than us from a positional standpoint. We're about equal when it comes to pitching.

If the goal is to take over this division and make the World Series go through Seattle, small augments won't get it done. We'll make the playoffs and get out talented when it really matters. It's what happened this past playoffs and while people want to act like the gap was small... it wasn't. The Astros were still our daddy.

We fear them... they don't fear us. Jose Abreu and Santiago Espinal don't change that.

[Big_Maple]

Money ball gets you to a certain point and I believe is no longer viable for winning a World Championship in today's era.

The Rays are about the closest example that we have in today's game and they were frankly outmatched in their WS appearance and many playoff series over the years. The same can be said for the recent A's teams that got to the playoffs but didn't have the fire power to push themselves over the hump.

It might improve the team, but what's the point if you're always falling short? The goal should be to win a World Series. There are teams in this league that are willing to spend the money and get the players in to make that happen.

And as much as it sucks to say, the Mariners current young core is not as good as the Astros when they did their rebuild and it's not as good now.

Julio is elite... but Ty France is not Alex Bregman or Jose Altuve. Jarred Kelenic is not George Springer or Kyle Tucker. JP Crawford is not Carlos Correa or Jeremy Pena. We don't have anyone that even sniffs Yordan Alvarez's potential.

They are just way more talented than us from a positional standpoint. We're about equal when it comes to pitching.

If the goal is to take over this division and make the World Series go through Seattle, small augments won't get it done. We'll make the playoffs and get out talented when it really matters. It's what happened this past playoffs and while people want to act like the gap was small... it wasn't. The Astros were still our daddy.

We fear them... they don't fear us. Jose Abreu and Santiago Espinal don't change that.

I started typing my own response here, but this post actually sums it up perfectly. Nothing to add. We need to go big or go home. Moneyballing it won't get us to the next level.

Well said, SoB.