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Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:28 am
by roosevelt
Well, I thought Descaflanie was the name of Hannigers latest injury.
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:25 am
by Donn Beach
D-train wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:16 pm
harmony wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:56 pm
Circumstances change.
When Seattle signed Cy Young winner Robbie Ray to a five-year, $115 million contract in November 2021, Luis Castillo was not on the Mariners. Logan Gilbert was coming off a rookie season with an ERA+ of 88 in 24 starts. George Kirby, Bryce Miller and Bryan Woo had never thrown an MLB pitch.
The Mariners have at least four years of team control over the promising rotation of Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert, Miller and Woo. The $73 million owed Ray was too expensive as insurance against almost inevitable attrition.
I just don't get it from the Giants perspective. Ray will have to put up about 8 WAR in 2025-26 to justify it. No chance.
Think it speaks to the increasing value of pitching. They're investing in his future value being worth it. Interesting our two untradable pitchers are the ones that get traded
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:35 am
by Donn Beach
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:31 pm
by D-train
Donn Beach wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:25 am
D-train wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:16 pm
harmony wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:56 pm
Circumstances change.
When Seattle signed Cy Young winner Robbie Ray to a five-year, $115 million contract in November 2021, Luis Castillo was not on the Mariners. Logan Gilbert was coming off a rookie season with an ERA+ of 88 in 24 starts. George Kirby, Bryce Miller and Bryan Woo had never thrown an MLB pitch.
The Mariners have at least four years of team control over the promising rotation of Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert, Miller and Woo. The $73 million owed Ray was too expensive as insurance against almost inevitable attrition.
I just don't get it from the Giants perspective. Ray will have to put up about 8 WAR in 2025-26 to justify it. No chance.
Think it speaks to the increasing value of pitching. They're investing in his future value being worth it. Interesting our two untradable pitchers are the ones that get traded
He will basically be getting paid $50M for two seasons coming off TJ. He put up 1.7 WAR in 2022. They will be lucky if he recoups half that value.
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:17 pm
by Donn Beach
I guess it makes Jerry Dipoto a lot brighter than Farhan Zaidi but Dipoto is an idiot
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:14 pm
by D-train
Donn Beach wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:17 pm
I guess it makes Jerry Dipoto a lot brighter than Farhan Zaidi but Dipoto is an idiot
Broken clocks are right twice a day. Would you prefer I just say every trade he makes is terrible without objectively assessing it?
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:30 pm
by Donn Beach
It's one of zaids trademark smart moves
Now the Giants are making one of Zaidi’s signature Smart Baseball Moves™. They are essentially signing Ray to a three-year, $34.5 million contract. That’s how the money pencils out when accounting for the salary obligations going back and forth as long as neither Ray nor Haniger opt out of their deals after this season. (Ray is owed $73 million over the next three seasons, including annual salaries of $25 million in 2025-26. Haniger is owed salaries of $17 million this year and $15.5 million in 2025. DeSclafani is due to make $12 million in the final year of his contract.)
That’s a potential bargain for a pitcher whose bat-missing four-seam fastball and slider eventually could allow him to replicate what Carlos Rodón contributed to the Giants’ rotation in 2022
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:58 pm
by Coeurd’Alene J
Donn Beach wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:30 pm
It's one of zaids trademark smart moves
Now the Giants are making one of Zaidi’s signature Smart Baseball Moves™. They are essentially signing Ray to a three-year, $34.5 million contract. That’s how the money pencils out when accounting for the salary obligations going back and forth as long as neither Ray nor Haniger opt out of their deals after this season. (Ray is owed $73 million over the next three seasons, including annual salaries of $25 million in 2025-26. Haniger is owed salaries of $17 million this year and $15.5 million in 2025. DeSclafani is due to make $12 million in the final year of his contract.)
That’s a potential bargain for a pitcher whose bat-missing four-seam fastball and slider eventually could allow him to replicate what Carlos Rodón contributed to the Giants’ rotation in 2022
Sounds like an equitable trade with each side getting praise….. time will tell…..I would not have traded Ray if I was the gm especially for a 1 yr rental and a oft injured player. Sadly Stanton is interfering in all this
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 7:34 pm
by D-train
Donn Beach wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:30 pm
It's one of zaids trademark smart moves
Now the Giants are making one of Zaidi’s signature Smart Baseball Moves™. They are essentially signing Ray to a three-year, $34.5 million contract. That’s how the money pencils out when accounting for the salary obligations going back and forth as long as neither Ray nor Haniger opt out of their deals after this season. (Ray is owed $73 million over the next three seasons, including annual salaries of $25 million in 2025-26. Haniger is owed salaries of $17 million this year and $15.5 million in 2025. DeSclafani is due to make $12 million in the final year of his contract.)
That’s a potential bargain for a pitcher whose bat-missing four-seam fastball and slider eventually could allow him to replicate what Carlos Rodón contributed to the Giants’ rotation in 2022
Holy shit what moronic analysis.
Re: Hanniger back with Descaflanie , Ray gone
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:38 am
by ice99
$34.5 M, Ray 3 yrs. But wait there's more...
Haniger puts up somewhere near 2.8 WAR over 2 years, ADS 0.7 WAR over 1 year.
$34.5 M is about 4 WAR.
So for it to work out for the Giants, Ray would have to get 7.5 WAR (3.5 + 4) over 2 yrs. and 1/3.
If Ray gets over 7.5 WAR, then it's a win for the Giants.
If Haniger + ADS get over 3.5 WAR, it's a win for the M's.
Imho, it could be a win-win.
I believe that ADS will get more WAR if he gets a chance to pitch elsewhere. They could re-gift...I mean re-trade him like Atlanta did with Marco Gonzales, or like the M's did with Edwin Encarnacion a few years ago.