Stone on the debacle

[Captain 97]

You're basically saying that since Munoz and Seawald struggled that Boyd or Swanson would have struggled as well. That's Illogical.

Oh, so saying that they would have been any different is?

I didn't say they WOULD have struggled, I am saying that there is no proof they wouldn't have. The way that game had turned? I am not sure we have ever had a reliever that wouldn't have given up a big hit to Alvarez. Jesus, zero chance any Mariner fan watching wasn't nervous, but you guys act like if Boyd had come in we would have just turned it off because we knew we won! There is a reason he has never been in that situation before, and it isn't because he has the stuff Munoz and Sewald have.

Of course there is no proof. Nothing is guaranteed. The Managers job is to go with the best option. Every single thing about their numbers and their recent history points to Boyd or Swanson being far more likely to succeed in that situation than Robbie Ray. I really don't see any plausible argument that could be made for Ray being the better option.

[bpj]

The problem was putting a struggling Ray in his first bullpen appearance in that situation when you had two relievers who had done well for you all (or part) season sitting out there twiddling their thumbs.

It was a questionable move that didn't work out. I don't blame Ray.

[Juliooooo]

You're basically saying that since Munoz and Seawald struggled that Boyd or Swanson would have struggled as well. That's Illogical.

We don't know what they would have done. Neither had been asked to pitch much in high leverage, and especially not against a hitter as good as Alvarez. Preferring to use them is understandable. Acting like it's an easy decision is what I disagree with. There were only bad options.

[bpj]

You're basically saying that since Munoz and Seawald struggled that Boyd or Swanson would have struggled as well. That's Illogical.

We don't know what they would have done. Neither had been asked to pitch much in high leverage, and especially not against a hitter as good as Alvarez. Preferring to use them is understandable. Acting like it's an easy decision is what I disagree with. There were only bad options.

There were two options with a track record and one with a question mark, and they went with the question mark.

[Michael K.]

Fine, you have the advantage of hindsight. BUT, was it his fault that the two guys we want to pitch the 8th and 9th blew it? Again, he had a plan, and the guys paid to execute it fucked up. They made a call coming into the series that Ray was going to pitch high leverage situations to lefties. So, he went with the plan, and another player couldn't execute.

If SS told him to throw two fastballs down the middle? Flame away, but as an organization they had a plan, so they should have scraped the plan?

If I had to assign blame?

66% on Sewald. I don't care if he ever wears a Mariners uniform again, he is a fucking pussy.
23% on Munoz. One fucking job dude, one. It sure isn't to face six hitters in one inning and give up a two run bomb.
Split the other ten how ever the fuck you want between Gilbert, Ray and SS.

This place today reminds me of listening to Daryl Bevell blame the gunner on the punt team for not running a strong enough route on 2nd and goal. Focusing on about 5% of the problem with why we lost.

[Captain 97]

You're basically saying that since Munoz and Seawald struggled that Boyd or Swanson would have struggled as well. That's Illogical.

We don't know what they would have done. Neither had been asked to pitch much in high leverage, and especially not against a hitter as good as Alvarez. Preferring to use them is understandable. Acting like it's an easy decision is what I disagree with. There were only bad options.

What season did you watch? Swanson pitched in high leverage situations all the time. Boyd is literally only here to face tough lefties. How many times was Robbie Ray in a high leverage situation this year? ZERO! He never made it past the 7th inning.

[Michael K.]

There were two options with a track record and one with a question mark, and they went with the question mark.

What track record? Everyone wants Boyd? In his 8 year career he has 0 saves. ZERO. So, he has a track record of getting the last out in a playoff game when the other team's best hitter is up and is the winning run? Nope.

In four years Swanson doesn't even average 3 saves a year. Good lord, the other guy was a Cy Young winner last year. Again, someone please explain to me why it is so hard to pitch out of the bullpen? You warm up, you go out there, throw warm up pitches and then face a hitter. Non of these guys had a track record of doing it, but one was a Cy Young winner who everyone in here was creaming over about six months ago!

[Michael K.]

What season did you watch? Swanson pitched in high leverage situations all the time. Boyd is literally only here to face tough lefties. How many times was Robbie Ray in a high leverage situation this year? ZERO! He never made it past the 7th inning.

You are moving the target. Neither of them are used in Save situations. High Leverage? So, in Boyd's case he is never asked to close the game, Swanson almost never, but they can be used in a situation they have been asked, but last year's fucking Cy Young winner can't? Leftie on Leftie, former Cy Young, or Rightie on Leftie with three saves, or Leftie on Leftie with no saves ever.

LOL, and this place thinks Cy Young was the ONLY bad decision. SMH

[XpertDBA]

There were two options with a track record and one with a question mark, and they went with the question mark.

What track record? Everyone wants Boyd? In his 8 year career he has 0 saves. ZERO. So, he has a track record of getting the last out in a playoff game when the other team's best hitter is up and is the winning run? Nope.

In four years Swanson doesn't even average 3 saves a year. Good lord, the other guy was a Cy Young winner last year. Again, someone please explain to me why it is so hard to pitch out of the bullpen? You warm up, you go out there, throw warm up pitches and then face a hitter. Non of these guys had a track record of doing it, but one was a Cy Young winner who everyone in here was creaming over about six months ago!

Yet, all of us were smart enough BEFORE THE AB, to say ON THIS FORUM...hey Scott, wtf are you doing???? Ray is a HOME RUN pitching machine.....lol.....I guess we were all just EXTREMELY psychic.

[Captain 97]

Fine, you have the advantage of hindsight. BUT, was it his fault that the two guys we want to pitch the 8th and 9th blew it? Again, he had a plan, and the guys paid to execute it fucked up. They made a call coming into the series that Ray was going to pitch high leverage situations to lefties. So, he went with the plan, and another player couldn't execute.

If SS told him to throw two fastballs down the middle? Flame away, but as an organization they had a plan, so they should have scraped the plan?

If I had to assign blame?

66% on Sewald. I don't care if he ever wears a Mariners uniform again, he is a fucking pussy.
23% on Munoz. One fucking job dude, one. It sure isn't to face six hitters in one inning and give up a two run bomb.
Split the other ten how ever the fuck you want between Gilbert, Ray and SS.

This place today reminds me of listening to Daryl Bevell blame the gunner on the punt team for not running a strong enough route on 2nd and goal. Focusing on about 5% of the problem with why we lost.

For the millionth time its not hind site. Most of us were calling this out as a bad decision before Ray threw his first pitch.
The managers job is to put your team in a position to compete between the lines and if they lose they lose. Sometimes the other team is better on that given day and that is unavoidable. Making desperate moves like putting a struggling starter in the game as a reliever when their are obviously better options is completely avoidable and completely inexcusable.