Virus Schmirus

[BaseHitDerby]

Fetzer did not write those 30 points out of his ass. He got it from sources in which some are peer reviewed. Those hyperlinks can lead you to sources. Obviously, you didn't check them out but automatically disregarded them and spouted your views (this coming from such a highly-educated person as yourself). I don't even read many news outlets and actually read more left-leaning sites like Yahoo.

He wrote them to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion he wanted to present. People do that. I am not saying all 30 are bogus. And as the right-wing, conservative Republican, Trump supporter you are it was so fucking predictable that you would attack my education. You guys are all alike.

Remember to put that mask on tomorrow.

I think DMM is absolutely correct here: "(Fetzer presented the 30 points) to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion he wanted to present. People do that."

Taking these 30 points at face value (and leaving aside James Fetzer's record of conspiracy theories such as Holocaust denial and "no one died at Sandy Hook Elementary School - which I admit is hard to do and trust anything he writes), it is pretty clear to me that his purpose was to find and present arguments that support a specific point of view. But it's cherry picking: the 30 points are useful if you want to argue that the threat of COVID-19 is overblown, or that various entities (in these 30 points it's particularly Democrats, the federal bureaucracy, and The WHO) have made big mistakes at some points.

I've certainty done the same kinds of things (reading a blog or a twitter post and saying "Aha! Yes I agree with this person!") But that isn't research; that's just argument.

Of course, you probably think everything DMM says is absolutely correct.

OHN P.A. IOANNIDIS, MD, DSC, holds the C.F. Rehnborg Chair in Disease Prevention at Stanford University where he is professor of medicine, professor of health research and policy, and professor of statistics (by courtesy) at the School of Humanities and Sciences.Dr. Ioannidis is one of the most-cited scientists of all times in the scientific literature. His current research at Stanford covers a wide agenda, including meta-research, large-scale evidence, population health sciences and predictive medicine and health. He has received numerous awards, including the European Award for Excellence in Clinical Science, and has been inducted into the Association of American Physicians and the European Academy of Cancer Sciences. Dr. Ioannidis is recognized as the leading clinical research methodologist of his generation for his work in evidence-based medicine and in appraising and improving the credibility of scientific studies and results. The PLoS Medicine article, “Why Most Published Research Findings are False,” was the most accessed and downloaded article in the history of PLoS.The Atlantic selected Dr. Ioannidis as the “Brave Thinker” scientist for 2010, characterizing him as “one of the most influential scientists alive.”

"Of course, that [fatality rate] was gradually dialed back to 1 percent or 0.9 percent. And these are the numbers that went into calculations, and these are the numbers that are still in many of the calculations, you know, until very recently.

You know, 1 percent is, is probably like the disaster case, maybe in some places in Queens, for example, it may be 1 percent, because you have all that perfect storm of nursing homes, and nosocomial infection [an infection that originates in a hospital], and no hospital system functioning. In many other places, it’s much, much lower."

That’s Scott Atlas, former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University, making his case for ending coronavirus lockdowns in favor of a targeted approach to getting the U.S. back on its feet.

“Americans are now desperate for sensible policy makers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts,” Atlas wrote in a widely read piece for The Hill last week. “Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function.”

Since that article published, Atlas has been bringing his message of ending lockdowns to several other media outlets in recent days, including an interview on the “Conservative Review with Daniel Horowitz” podcast, a chat with The Blaze, and an op-ed in the NY Post.

Atlas explained how the death rate in New York, where almost a third of all U.S. deaths have taken place, shouldn’t be a cause for panic for most. He said that more than 99% of those who have died had an underlying condition and that the rate of death for all people 18-45 is 0.01%.

“We know children and young adults in good health have almost no risk of any serious illness from COVID-19, so logic means opening most schools,” he wrote in The Post. “With sensible precautions and sanitization standards, most workplaces and businesses should reopen. This would save lives, prevent overcrowding of hospitals, restore vital health care for everyone and allow the socializing essential to generate immunity among those with little risk of serious consequences.”

In addition, Atlas says that, because of such “hypothetical projections,” patients in need of other medical care, such as those suffering from cancer and heart conditions, are being ignored.

“People are dying to accommodate ‘potential’ COVID-19 patients and for fear of spreading the disease,” he wrote. “Most states and many hospitals abruptly stopped ‘nonessential’ procedures and surgery. That prevented diagnoses of life-threatening diseases, like cancer screening, biopsies of tumors now undiscovered and potentially deadly brain aneurysms.”

Also, by continuing the lockdowns, he says, the powers-that-be are actively delaying the process that must take place for things to get back to normal. Herd immunity, according to Atlas, is the only way to move forward without a proven treatment or vaccine.

These are people in the most prominent academic positions jeopardizing their reputations by coming out and saying things that are completely against the grain where they will face backlash. But oh wait, it's just a conspiracy theory.

[BaseHitDerby]

I've been reading the crock of reasons not to wear a mask... uggh.

Guy in Maryland who led protests against stay-at-home orders, who went to church, went everywhere without a mask got very sick and was diagnosed with Covid-19. But the kicker is that he refuses to provide a list of his contacts. Heroic, freedom-loving, constitutional but he's going to end up killing some of his friends, and their friends and their family members. What a jerk! Also not very smart. He's 53, diabetic, has had mini-strokes and underlying health concerns. He was ripe...

But it's ok for thousands of people across the country to come together to protest, riot, and/or loot.

[Double Mocha Man]

Okay to protest. But not to riot or loot. I thought that was very dangerous. But ultimately very few Covid-19 cases because most wore masks. Base hit, are you wearing a stylish Mariner mask today?

[Coeurd’Alene J]

It seems so flippant in today’s environment to just brush off those who you disagree with. I find it dishonest to not be forthcoming with just the facts. Let us decide for ourselves. When did we as Americans become subject to the authorities of the moment who seemingly withhold important information that would explain whether we are gaining on this virus or it’s going to ravage us. When you hear that hospitalizations are going up in places like Texas and Florida the first thing we should be told is what are the ages of those being admitted. It seems to me the biggest mistakes we made early on was to not protect those most vulnerable, our seniors and specifically those over 70 with other health issues.

Wasn’t it the goal to have herd immunity

Whenever I hear someone say ‘That’s just a conspiracy theory”. It guarantees that someone will be triggered and disregard the message. Unfortunately dishonest public figures have straight out lied to advance an agenda

Can anyone breathing see what Adam Schiff was saying about Trump being a Russian asset, Putin’s cock holster, on and on...It sounded legit until it wasn’t

Remember when Fauci said NOT to wear a mask.......
He’s now saying he lied to save the masks for the health care workers.....
What else has he lied about

Americans can be told the truth, We can handle it.Thats the American way, If you get exposed as being less than honest to your fellow Americans than you are fair game for abuse

[gil]

It seems so flippant in today’s environment to just brush off those who you disagree with. I find it dishonest to not be forthcoming with just the facts. Let us decide for ourselves. When did we as Americans become subject to the authorities of the moment who seemingly withhold important information that would explain whether we are gaining on this virus or it’s going to ravage us. When you hear that hospitalizations are going up in places like Texas and Florida the first thing we should be told is what are the ages of those being admitted. It seems to me the biggest mistakes we made early on was to not protect those most vulnerable, our seniors and specifically those over 70 with other health issues.

Wasn’t it the goal to have herd immunity

Whenever I hear someone say ‘That’s just a conspiracy theory”. It guarantees that someone will be triggered and disregard the message. Unfortunately dishonest public figures have straight out lied to advance an agenda

Can anyone breathing see what Adam Schiff was saying about Trump being a Russian asset, Putin’s cock holster, on and on...It sounded legit until it wasn’t

Remember when Fauci said NOT to wear a mask.......
He’s now saying he lied to save the masks for the health care workers.....
What else has he lied about

Americans can be told the truth, We can handle it.Thats the American way, If you get exposed as being less than honest to your fellow Americans than you are fair game for abuse

I agree with a lot of what you say. I wish we, no matter what our political views are, would stick to facts. That is, avoid name calling, avoid making strawman arguments, and avoid putting words in each others' mouths. To some extent, I don't recognize my (moderately) liberal friends' views from what I read on right-leaning media. And conversely, I often don't recognize my (moderately) conservative friends' views from what what I read on left-leaning media. As apparently I'm one of the more "liberal" people here, I'm certainly annoyed when all people to left of center get smeared by association with some far out leftist. And I'm sure the thoughtful conservative on the forum feel the same way, i.e., when all conservatives are smeared by association with an extremest post of view.

For the record, I think Schiff was wrong about that. I have trust in the Mueller report, which (I'm pretty sure) says that Russia wanted Trump, but there was not collusion. (Unless you think it was a cover up because Mueller is a life-long Republican *rolls eyes*)

As to the demographics of who is more likely to be hospitalized and who is more likely to die, does anyone dispute that the answer is "the elderly" to both? I agree with you about that mistake.

Fauci "lying" is a bit strong, in my opinion. I've looked at the transcript of the interview he did on "60 Minutes" on March 8 where he said, "Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks." The two things that stick with me about the interview are #1 the emphasis on protective marks being prioritized for from line health care workers, and #2 the fact that cloth masks are to protect other people, more so than yourself.

By the way, what do you think of the Texas governor's halting the re-opening of bars and river rafting? I think he said they reopened too soon.

[Moe Gibbs]

1/3 of the US deaths happened in NYC.
Not surprised. Everything including health care facilities is so grungy and run into the ground. You need a gas mask to walk the corridors of the low income housing bldgs or else risk getting overcome with the rank odors of B.O. and curry everywhere. You need to carry a flashlight in the dim lit corridors and elevators to avoid stepping in human shit, puke and piss. The Building Managers chores include using wet vacs in the public areas to sop up all the body wastes, so the carpets never get a chance to completely dry...so add mold and mildew to the list of odors. This is what Cultural Enrichment really smells like. The Globalist chant of "Diversity Makes Us Stronger" is total nonsense. "Diversity Makes Us Weaker and More Sick" is the truth of the matter. Being poor is no excuse for living like pigs. It's either in your DNA to put in the work to live like a full fledged human...or it's not.

[Coeurd’Alene J]

Why did we shut the country down?

It seems it was to keep the hospitals from being over run and the problems of not having enough beds would be unforgivable

Why is the death rate falling while the numbers of infected raises rather quickly?

It seems we are testing more and realizing more of us have or had it.
It also seems that the death rate was capturing a lot of deaths early on that didn’t belong with the virus

Mark Wauck on all this

https://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... .html#more

There's no health related reason why, at this point, we should not have access to the data that they have. Not to put too fine a point on it, Lib Prog fear mongering must be behind the lack of transparency. The fact of the matter is, you know and I know that--after months of the pandemic--there is no lack of relevant data out there, collected by government health officials. Yet somehow that relevant data is, for the most part, not being pushed out to the people (you and me) who need it to respond rationally. It's as if there are people or 'folks' who don't want us to know, who don't want us to be part of the decision making process.

By the way....I have no idea if Mark has a PhD or not as I can find what he writes to make sense to me.....hopefully to you as well...but if you have to have that degree before you accept it than sorry for you coffee man

[Sibelius Hindemith]

One thing we can be fairly sure of is that the totalitarian government of China is very happy about the ongoing shut-downs of our economy as well as the riots and Marxist groups that organized them. Look what they're doing in Hong Kong. But that could never happen to us...

[Coeurd’Alene J]

One thing we can be fairly sure of is that the totalitarian government of China is very happy about the ongoing shut-downs of our economy as well as the riots and Marxist groups that organized them. Look what they're doing in Hong Kong. But that could never happen to us...

Good point. Just realize that not all of America is affected the same....... Idaho is fully open and fully patriotic. No one dare cause trouble here with burnings, lootings, mayhem and murder of innocents. The trouble makers would have more holes in them than a sponge if they tried. You don’t see videos of fellow Americans executing each other like you have in inner cities. Chicago is a war zone, Seattle is over run with homeless combined with severe drug addiction that now is considered less than a misdemeanor or Minneapolis that’s getting torched. Why is it that all these trouble spots in America just happen to be run for decades by one political party and yet it’s Trumps fault. We have literally thousands of retired police that moved here over the last 15 years....thousands. Why would they leave a place that they spent a lifetime at..........

If you don’t know the answer than your head is in the sand

[Double Mocha Man]

No one dare cause trouble here with burnings, lootings, mayhem and murder of innocents. The trouble makers would have more holes in them than a sponge if they tried. You don’t see videos of fellow Americans executing each other like you have in inner cities.

Now c'mon... you can't have it both ways. In one case you have Idahoans putting holes in troublemakers. In the other case you say you won't see fellow Americans/Idahoans executing each other. I believe if there are two or more holes in a troublemaker it's generally an execution.