Mariner Talk Chat Forum

Throughout Mariner history, a lot of fans have liked to say that we're cursed, but you can't really say that unless you've had at least one total ball-kicking defeat and in every playoff loss we'd had, we'd been beaten decisively. In 2001 the 116-win team lost in the ALCS, but 9/11 was still fresh in our minds so it didn't hurt as much as it normally would have. More than anything we've just sucked. We weren't like the Indians who blew a 9th-inning lead in game 7 of the World Series in 1997 and lost in extra innings in game 7 of the World Series in 2016. That's a steel-toed boot to each nard right there.

That changed last night. We had the pennant won and we gave it away. It is now officially a curse.

So what do we call it? It has be named after something well-known that happened early in our history, and I think I have the perfect event: when a Mariner player had the most detrimental term in baseball history named after him, and I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about...The Mendoza Line. The term that epitomizes more than any other baseball futility.

The Curse Of Mario Mendoza. I don't think that there's a better name for it, and I refuse to argue about this.

Oh, and here are the six regular players (SIX!!!!!!) who are at (okay, Julio was barely above it) or below the Mendoza Line in the playoffs:

Julio 10-48 (.208), 19 Ks
JP 8-40 (.200), 2 XB hits
Arozarena 9-48 (.188), 2 XB hits, 19 Ks (had over a 1.200 OPS in seven playoff series with Tampa Bay)
Rivas 2-17 (.118), 0 XB hits, 9 Ks
Robles 3-27 (.111), 0 XB hits
Canzone 3-28 (.107), 0 XB hits

DavidGee24 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 21, 2025 9:16 pm

Throughout Mariner history, a lot of fans have liked to say that we're cursed, but you can't really say that unless you've had at least one total ball-kicking defeat and in every playoff loss we'd had, we'd been beaten decisively. In 2001 the 116-win team lost in the ALCS, but 9/11 was still fresh in our minds so it didn't hurt as much as it normally would have. More than anything we've just sucked. We weren't like the Indians who blew a 9th-inning lead in game 7 of the World Series in 1997 and lost in extra innings in game 7 of the World Series in 2016. That's a steel-toed boot to each nard right there.

That changed last night. We had the pennant won and we gave it away. It is now officially a curse.

So what do we call it? It has be named after something well-known that happened early in our history, and I think I have the perfect event: when a Mariner player had the most detrimental term in baseball history named after him, and I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about...The Mendoza Line. The term that epitomizes more than any other baseball futility.

The Curse Of Mario Mendoza. I don't think that there's a better name for it, and I refuse to argue about this.

Oh, and here are the six regular players (SIX!!!!!!) who are at (okay, Julio was barely above it) or below the Mendoza Line in the playoffs:

Julio 10-48 (.208), 19 Ks
JP 8-40 (.200), 2 XB hits
Arozarena 9-48 (.188), 2 XB hits, 19 Ks (had over a 1.200 OPS in seven playoff series with Tampa Bay)
Rivas 2-17 (.118), 0 XB hits, 9 Ks
Robles 3-27 (.111), 0 XB hits
Canzone 3-28 (.107), 0 XB hits

Horrendous numbers.

I don't really remember Mendoza, but I remember the feel good 1995 season, and the excitement of that off season being torched when we traded Tino because? MONEY.

We are cursed, but we are cursed by being run by people that don't care about winning. You can't have those teams in the mid 90s to 2001, do jack fucking squat at the deadline to make them better, watch everyone around you add players and excitement, and then just throw your hands up and cry poor. The amount of money this Franchise has made recently? To enter the beginning of the season with the horseshit starting 9 we had?

We are cursed alright, cursed by budget constraints in a sport with no salary cap. Ask the Brewers if low budget works? This sport is built for the rich. The Dodgers are first and the Blue Jays are 7th. The Mariners 11th and the Brewers 16th. It will be interesting to see how the two that lost the LCS treat the off season. I expect us to bring up a bunch of the young guys, hope to hold on until the deadline and then hope to strike lightening in a bottle again. Maybe it will work, but I still think they have made more than enough money lately to add payroll this offseason. To not lose out on players because of money.

Be real interesting to see how desirable it is to come here now. Guys like Geno and Naylor seem to actually want to stay. Pretty different than Teoscar or some of the others that were brought here and seemed to be in a race to get out. Maybe we won't have to work as hard to get big name free agents now? But my fear is that Dipotto's ego won't allow it. We were a few outs from the WS by saving money early and adding at the deadline. He's gonna double down and we are going to be watching really bad offensive baseball to start the season.

Also, in the past 25 years, if you remove the COVID shortened season, only five times has the AL West division winner won 90 or fewer. We might actually have to get better to make the playoffs next year. Will that be something they put priority on, or will they shoot for 86 wins and hoping that gets them a WC?

Back to curses....you can NOT have a team where the batting order has 3 through 6

Griffey Junior
Edgar
A Rod
Buhner

Joey Cora, Roberto Kelly, Sorrento, Wilson and Blowers weren't nobodies themselves!

A starting staff of
Randy Johnson
Jamie Moyer
Jeff Fassero

And lose a series to Baltimore 3 games to 1 where you lose the first two games 9 - 3

Having all of those guys we had in the late 90s and pissing away so many opportunities? That group only made the playoffs in 95 and 97!? What the actual fuck. THAT is the curse....pissing away what, four Hall of Famers on the team at the same fucking time? I realize A Fraud won't make the Hall, but it won't be because he didn't put up Hall of Fame numbers!

Michael K. wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 22, 2025 2:38 pm

Back to curses....you can NOT have a team where the batting order has 3 through 6

Griffey Junior
Edgar
A Rod
Buhner

Joey Cora, Roberto Kelly, Sorrento, Wilson and Blowers weren't nobodies themselves!

A starting staff of
Randy Johnson
Jamie Moyer
Jeff Fassero

And lose a series to Baltimore 3 games to 1 where you lose the first two games 9 - 3
T
Having all of those guys we had in the late 90s and pissing away so many opportunities? That group only made the playoffs in 95 and 97!? What the actual fuck. THAT is the curse....pissing away what, four Hall of Famers on the team at the same fucking time? I realize A Fraud won't make the Hall, but it won't be because he didn't put up Hall of Fame numbers!

Its interesting to me and I'm not trying to stir a pot but I don't believe I've ever seen anything ever disparaging about Lou with any of that. If SS or Wilson were managing those teams they would get lynched from a street light on Royal Brougham way

Donn Beach wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:08 pm

Michael K. wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 22, 2025 2:38 pm

Back to curses....you can NOT have a team where the batting order has 3 through 6

Griffey Junior
Edgar
A Rod
Buhner

Joey Cora, Roberto Kelly, Sorrento, Wilson and Blowers weren't nobodies themselves!

A starting staff of
Randy Johnson
Jamie Moyer
Jeff Fassero

And lose a series to Baltimore 3 games to 1 where you lose the first two games 9 - 3
T
Having all of those guys we had in the late 90s and pissing away so many opportunities? That group only made the playoffs in 95 and 97!? What the actual fuck. THAT is the curse....pissing away what, four Hall of Famers on the team at the same fucking time? I realize A Fraud won't make the Hall, but it won't be because he didn't put up Hall of Fame numbers!

Its interesting to me and I'm not trying to stir a pot but I don't believe I've ever seen anything ever disparaging about Lou with any of that. If SS or Wilson were managing those teams they would get lynched from a street light on Royal Brougham way

Very true, it is because the vast majority of sports fans are very passionate and thus appreciate outwardly passionate managers and HCs. I think most fans would love the Blue Jays manager far more than SS or Wilson.

Donn Beach wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:08 pm

Its interesting to me and I'm not trying to stir a pot but I don't believe I've ever seen anything ever disparaging about Lou with any of that. If SS or Wilson were managing those teams they would get lynched from a street light on Royal Brougham way

Different time...no social media, not as much talk radio, etc. Lou took a lot of heat for his use of pitchers. But I remember back in those days? Most fans expected the players to perform, and when they didn't? The players got called out. Now? You put a pitcher in a spot to do his job, he leaves one over the white, and millions of people on X scream that the manager is an idiot. Stop throwing the ball over the white.

Dan fucked up Monday, I really believe that.

• Took out Kirby too soon
  Had JP out of position after the leadoff walk in the 7th. Why the fuck was he nowhere near the six hole on that ground ball?
  Bazardo was a bizare move to say the least
  ZERO chance you pitch to Springer there

Otherwise?
We lost because J Rod grounded into a double play right in front of Cal, to end an inning. Even one out, iirc, would have meant two on for Cal. Cal hits a solo shot to lead off the next inning.
We lost because we can't generate base runners, and live by the long ball. Solo HRs don't usually win LCS's.
We lost because stars like Vlad and Springer came through in big moments and our guys didn't. J Rod striking out on an at bat where the pitchers threw six balls? Horrible.
We lost because Rivas was an absolute liability at the plate on Monday, but thanks to the fact that Robles, Canzone and just about every other option to take at bats was worse? So Rivas goes to 2nd and Polanco DHs.

Everyone talks about how long the Blue Jays lineup was. Well? That was what we talked about with this lineup AFTER the deadline. Maybe the Jays having -

$255,230,405 in total payroll and
$160,519,283 in active payroll
allows them to have a deeper lineup than a Mariner team with

$164,346,493 in total payroll and
$128,918,817 in active?

Hate to beat a dead horse, but what teams besides the two in New York are thinking they might have OVERSPENT? What makes us think it might change? 11th in payroll got us a few outs from the WS. I expect Dipotto to double down, and I expect a first half of the season very much as frustrating as this one was. The only curse is a cheap ownership group.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/_/year/2025

Michael K. wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:27 pm

Donn Beach wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:08 pm

Its interesting to me and I'm not trying to stir a pot but I don't believe I've ever seen anything ever disparaging about Lou with any of that. If SS or Wilson were managing those teams they would get lynched from a street light on Royal Brougham way

Different time...no social media, not as much talk radio, etc. Lou took a lot of heat for his use of pitchers. But I remember back in those days? Most fans expected the players to perform, and when they didn't? The players got called out. Now? You put a pitcher in a spot to do his job, he leaves one over the white, and millions of people on X scream that the manager is an idiot. Stop throwing the ball over the white.

Dan fucked up Monday, I really believe that.

• Took out Kirby too soon
  Had JP out of position after the leadoff walk in the 7th. Why the fuck was he nowhere near the six hole on that ground ball?
  Bazardo was a bizare move to say the least
  ZERO chance you pitch to Springer there

Otherwise?
We lost because J Rod grounded into a double play right in front of Cal, to end an inning. Even one out, iirc, would have meant two on for Cal. Cal hits a solo shot to lead off the next inning.
We lost because we can't generate base runners, and live by the long ball. Solo HRs don't usually win LCS's.
We lost because stars like Vlad and Springer came through in big moments and our guys didn't. J Rod striking out on an at bat where the pitchers threw six balls? Horrible.
We lost because Rivas was an absolute liability at the plate on Monday, but thanks to the fact that Robles, Canzone and just about every other option to take at bats was worse? So Rivas goes to 2nd and Polanco DHs.

Everyone talks about how long the Blue Jays lineup was. Well? That was what we talked about with this lineup AFTER the deadline. Maybe the Jays having -

$255,230,405 in total payroll and
$160,519,283 in active payroll
allows them to have a deeper lineup than a Mariner team with

$164,346,493 in total payroll and
$128,918,817 in active?

Hate to beat a dead horse, but what teams besides the two in New York are thinking they might have OVERSPENT? What makes us think it might change? 11th in payroll got us a few outs from the WS. I expect Dipotto to double down, and I expect a first half of the season very much as frustrating as this one was. The only curse is a cheap ownership group.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/_/year/2025

Great post brother! Especially taking the Payroll numbers out 9 digits!!!

Totally agree. Rotation is set. Sign another bum for $1,125,694 to replace Turd Ferguson your big trade deadline BP addition. Sign Solano's great Grand Pappi to platoon with Raley at 1B and put Ben at 3B hyping his PCL stat and Young at 2B saying he is so Young and prospect progression isn't linear. Robles and Canzone platoon in RF and there ya go. There's your OD roster.

D-train wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:37 pm

Great post brother! Especially taking the Payroll numbers out 9 digits!!!

That was mostly just because I was positive I'd get called out for having my numbers wrong, so I took it straight from the site I added the link to.