Mariner Talk Chat Forum

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 6:53 pm**

To while away a lazy sunny afternoon until game time: How do you think the All-History Mariner's best team (by individual) in their prime would fare against the same for the Yankees in a one game matchup?

Randy Johnson on the mound, of course.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 8:13 pm**

Okay, too esoteric. I'll withdraw my thread, your Honor...

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 pm**

I guess I would go
player/ position peak OPS+/ERA+ WAR peak SB
SP
Randy Johnson peak 197ERA+ 10.7 WAR
Closer
Diaz peak 234 ERA+ 3.2 WAR
1 Ichiro RF 130 9.2 56
2. ARod SS 176 10.4 46
3. Griffey CF 171 8.2 24
4. Edgar 3B 185 7.0* 14
5. Nelson Cruz DH 159 5.1 20
6. Boone 2B 153 8.8 16
7 Alvin Davis 1B 156 6 5
8. Mitch Haniger LF 138 6.1 8
9. Omar Narvaez C 132 3*

Strongle considered: DH Vogelbach, Beltre 3B Prime years were not as a mariner, Jon Olerud WSU local connection but traded for vs kinda of signed or drafted, Mike Cameron ~ LF Cf range Defense peak 120's OPS and 30 SB, Zunino C 125 OPS season, Dan Wilson C,
*Note if he had his peak hitting season while he was still playing above average 3B he would have a lot more WAR
*2 OPS+ and WAR this years prorated full season

Vs the Yankees
C Yogi Bera 125 OPS+ peak 141 5 SB 6.3 peak WAR
1B Lou Gehrig 179 OPS+ 17 SB 220 peak

11.8
2B Robinson Cano 126 OPS+ 10 SB 147 OPS+ peak 8.1
3B AROD can't playt for 2 teams
SS Jeter 115 OPS+ career peak 153 OPS+ 8 WAR
Outfield
Babe Ruth 206 OPS+ career peak 14.3 WAR 255 OPS+
Joe Dimaggio 155OPS+ peak 184 9.1
Mickey Mantle 172 OPS+ peak 221OPS+ 11.3
3B Red Rolfe 99 OPS+ 23.5 career WAR peak 130 OPS+ 5.9 WAR
Nope not Alex this is a problem position for the Yankees I looked up best yankee 3B and 4 of the 5 Alex, Craig Nettles, Wade Boggs, Scott Broscius were all guys that established themselves elsewhere.
SP
Whitey Ford 133 ERA+ career peak 177 ERA+ 6.7 WAR
Closer
Mariano Rivera Peak 318 ERA+ 4.3 WAR

Overall Yankees>Mariners but if you don't let the Yankees have Alex at 3rd it gets a lot closer than many would think
Randy>Ford
]Diaz<Mo Rivera
Narvaez < Yogi Bera
Davis < Lou Gehrig
Boone > Cano*
AROD > Jeter
Edgar > Rolfe
Griffey<Ruth
Ichiro< Mantle
Haniger<Joe Dimaggio

*Technically Boone's very best season beats Robbie's but obviously Cano is far better. But given peak seasons M's win Randy vs Whitey SP, 2B Cano vs Boone, Arod over Jeter, and Edgar over Rolfe. No seperate DH. The 117 seasons of Yankee history compared to the 43 seasons of Mariner history. Some of those Lou Gehrig Babe Ruth numbers are too far out there for a modern player to live up to. Barry Bonds roided version 2.0 not withstanding.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 pm**

Double Mocha Man wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 8:13 pm
Okay, too esoteric. I'll withdraw my thread, your Honor...

If you wanted esoteric, should have picked a team like Cleveland or a National League team like Houston..........oh, wait......

Against the All-Time Yankees? 10-run rule after the 5th when the Bronx was up, say, about 74-0.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 9:33 pm**

Hanjag wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 pm
I guess I would go
player/ position peak OPS+/ERA+ WAR peak SB
SP
Randy Johnson peak 197ERA+ 10.7 WAR
Closer
Diaz peak 234 ERA+ 3.2 WAR
1 Ichiro RF 130 9.2 56
2. ARod SS 176 10.4 46
3. Griffey CF 171 8.2 24
4. Edgar 3B 185 7.0* 14
5. Nelson Cruz DH 159 5.1 20
6. Boone 2B 153 8.8 16
7 Alvin Davis 1B 156 6 5
8. Mitch Haniger LF 138 6.1 8
9. Omar Narvaez C 132 3*

Strongle considered: DH Vogelbach, Beltre 3B Prime years were not as a mariner, Jon Olerud WSU local connection but traded for vs kinda of signed or drafted, Mike Cameron ~ LF Cf range Defense peak 120's OPS and 30 SB, Zunino C 125 OPS season, Dan Wilson C,
*Note if he had his peak hitting season while he was still playing above average 3B he would have a lot more WAR
*2 OPS+ and WAR this years prorated full season

Vs the Yankees
C Yogi Bera 125 OPS+ peak 141 5 SB 6.3 peak WAR
1B Lou Gehrig 179 OPS+ 17 SB 220 peak 11.8
2B Robinson Cano 126 OPS+ 10 SB 147 OPS+ peak 8.1
3B AROD can't playt for 2 teams
SS Jeter 115 OPS+ career peak 153 OPS+ 8 WAR
Outfield
Babe Ruth 206 OPS+ career peak 14.3 WAR 255 OPS+
Joe Dimaggio 155OPS+ peak 184 9.1
Mickey Mantle 172 OPS+ peak 221OPS+ 11.3
3B Red Rolfe 99 OPS+ 23.5 career WAR peak 130 OPS+ 5.9 WAR
Nope not Alex this is a problem position for the Yankees I looked up best yankee 3B and 4 of the 5 Alex, Craig Nettles, Wade Boggs, Scott Broscius were all guys that established themselves elsewhere.
SP
Whitey Ford 133 ERA+ career peak 177 ERA+ 6.7 WAR
Closer
Mariano Rivera Peak 318 ERA+ 4.3 WAR

Overall Yankees>Mariners but if you don't let the Yankees have Alex at 3rd it gets a lot closer than many would think
Randy>Ford
]Diaz<Mo Rivera
Narvaez < Yogi Bera
Davis < Lou Gehrig
Boone > Cano*
AROD > Jeter
Edgar > Rolfe
Griffey<Ruth
Ichiro< Mantle
Haniger<Joe Dimaggio

*Technically Boone's very best season beats Robbie's but obviously Cano is far better. But given peak seasons M's win Randy vs Whitey SP, 2B Cano vs Boone, Arod over Jeter, and Edgar over Rolfe. No seperate DH. The 117 seasons of Yankee history compared to the 43 seasons of Mariner history. Some of those Lou Gehrig Babe Ruth numbers are too far out there for a modern player to live up to. Barry Bonds roided version 2.0 not withstanding.

Why didn't you do Cano versus Cano? He'd be a tired puppy. Think he doesn't run things out now

?

Nice analysis though.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 9:52 pm**

You have to to with Nettles over Rolfe which this site does.

https://hatedyankees.wordpress.com/2016 ... e-history/

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 10:45 pm**

This would be a match up for the ages:

Mariners
Outfield
Ricky Henderson
Danny Tartabull
Jay Buhner
Infield
Tino Martinez
Robinson Cano
Alex Rodriguez
Mike Blowers
Catchers
Scott Bradley
Chris Widgers
Designated Hitter
Ken Phelps
The Rotation
Randy Johnson
James Paxton
Sterling Hitchcock
Scott Bankhead
Jim Beattie
Bullpen
Shawn Kelley
Matt Thornton
Set up -Jeff Nelson
Closer - Shane Rawley

Yankees
Outfield
Ricky Henderson
Danny Tartabull
Jay Buhner
Infield
Tino Martinez
Robinson Cano
Alex Rodriguez
Mike Blowers
Catchers
Scott Bradley
Chris Widgers
Designated Hitter
Ken Phelps
The Rotation
Randy Johnson
James Paxton
Sterling Hitchcock
Scott Bankhead
Jim Beattie
Bullpen
Shawn Kelley
Matt Thornton
Set up -Jeff Nelson
Closer - Shane Rawley

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 10:53 pm**

rockycola wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 pm

Double Mocha Man wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 8:13 pm
Okay, too esoteric. I'll withdraw my thread, your Honor...
If you wanted esoteric, should have picked a team like Cleveland or a National League team like Houston..........oh, wait......

Against the All-Time Yankees? 10-run rule after the 5th when the Bronx was up, say, about 74-0.

Randy is better than Whitey Ford at SP
AROD beats Jeter both in OPS+, WAR career and peak, ARod was + defense at SS Jeter was not.
Edgar beats the Yankees best homegrown 3B
and although Cano is obviously better than Boone career Boone had the better peak season.
117 seasons vs 43 and the chances for great players is too much to overcome. I think we would see at least even steven going just over players developed in the last 35 years to erase the draft and development head start.
The relative new Yankees would be something like:
SP Petite 8.4 WAR 177 ERA+ peaks
Closer Mo
C POsada 153 OPS+ and 5.5 Peak
1B Mattingly peak 161 OPS+ 7.2 WAR
2B Cano
SS Jeter
3B Wade Boggs (142 OPS+ best with Yankees) No on ARod for same reason no on Cano, Beltre, 186 OPS+ peak Olerud for M's.
OF
Bernie Williams peak 6.4 160 OPS+
AAron Judge Peak 171 OPS 8.1WAR
Hideki Matsui peak 137 OPS+ 5 WAR
or Brett Gardner 120 OPS+peak 7.4 WAR peak
So post Mariners birth it could be argued the M's=or better than Yanks for home grown or close to it meaning players that were not established stars. M's win 2/3 in the outfield Griffey and Ichiro win but Haniger, Cameron, Ibanez. Catcher for the M's is like 3B for the Yankees they just can't develop them.
Seattle wins
SP RJ vs Pettitte win
closer Diaz vs Rivera Loss
C Posada vs Kenji, Zunino, Wilson, Narvaez Loss
1BMattingly vs Davis Loss
2B Cano vs Boone, Harold Reynolds loss
SS ARod Vs. Jeter win
3B Edgar vs Mike Pagliarulo Win
OF Ichiro and Griffey win 2 of the 3 spots
If we throw the DH in Edgar would win vs whoever from modern Yankees adn Seager beats Pags as well

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 11:03 pm**

D-train wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 9:52 pm
You have to to with Nettles over Rolfe which this site does.

https://hatedyankees.wordpress.com/2016 ... e-history/

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/pos.shtml
Nettles had established himself with the Padres I tried to go with players that established themselves with the team and had peak seasons with them. So no Cano, Beltre, Olerud, Ricky Henderson and there peak years for us or them. 3 B is not something the Yankees seem to be able to develop recently they have traded for
Headley Chase
ARod
Robin Ventura
Scott Brosius
Wade Boggs
Back to Pagliarulo their last homegrown everyday 3B 85-89 he was worth 10 WAR in his career
Nettles was 73 to 83 had played for two other teams and had finished in the top 30 in MVP voting before joining the Yankees at age 28 season.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2019 11:05 pm**

Scratchiro wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 10:45 pm
This would be a match up for the ages:

Mariners
Outfield
Ricky Henderson
Danny Tartabull
Jay Buhner
Infield
Tino Martinez
Robinson Cano
Alex Rodriguez
Mike Blowers
Catchers
Scott Bradley
Chris Widgers
Designated Hitter
Ken Phelps
The Rotation
Randy Johnson
James Paxton
Sterling Hitchcock
Scott Bankhead
Jim Beattie
Bullpen
Shawn Kelley
Matt Thornton
Set up -Jeff Nelson
Closer - Shane Rawley

Yankees
Outfield
Ricky Henderson
Danny Tartabull
Jay Buhner
Infield
Tino Martinez
Robinson Cano
Alex Rodriguez
Mike Blowers
Catchers
Scott Bradley
Chris Widgers
Designated Hitter
Ken Phelps
The Rotation
Randy Johnson
James Paxton
Sterling Hitchcock
Scott Bankhead
Jim Beattie
Bullpen
Shawn Kelley
Matt Thornton
Set up -Jeff Nelson
Closer - Shane Rawley

Is that the all Yankees and Mariners team that were also Mariners and Yankees teams teams.

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