Mariner Talk Chat Forum

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mar ... out-jerry-
This is a pretty good article by Larry Stone. Since I don't read the Times, I usually miss this stuff. So I wonder what everyone thinks about Dipoto and his plan.... Do you have confidence in Dipoto's ability to evaluate talent? Breakout talent? Long range signings? Ability to develop talent or ability to hire right people to develop talent? Do you trust his long range plan?

I don't. Seattle is a second tier "Big Market" city. Will never have the financial resources of LA, Chicago, Boston, or New York, or Houston. These teams can throw big money at problems every season, so I don't like to compare Seattle with them. But Seattle should compare themselves with San Francisco, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, San Diego maybe and Toronto... and we are falling short.. I think there's a group of great young managers out there, for example.... Gabe Kapler (SF), Craig Counsel (Milwaukee), David Bell (Cin. Reds), Kevin Cash (Tampa Bay), and Scott Servais is not one of them. I think we had one great general manager in Pat Gillick and Dipoto is nowhere near his knowledge nor ability to select talent or run a franchise. I have been excited about the prospects gathered in the partial "rebuild", but I have little confidence in this management group's ability to develop or assemble them into winners. Seems like every debut, Kyle Lewis, Evan White, Taylor Trammell, Jarred Kelenic, Justus Sheffield, Justin Dunn, etc..... is followed by questions and disappointment.

I find myself jealously watching the Rays or the Giants or Milwaukee a lot right now, cause I enjoy team play and really good baseball... This year has been guilded with more luck than skill, imo. more frustration than satisfaction... more embarrassment than the pride I felt with Pinella's Mariners. I'm wondering where this is really going.... Thoughts?

I would love to see them get a new GM and Manager before 2022.

Dipoto has done a nice job laying a foundation, but doesn't seem capable of finishing the product.

Not recognizing they could have been contenders and supplementing the roster going into 2021 was a big mistake imo.

Only ownership knows whose call that was, so I won't resent an extension to see if Dipoto can make the right moves this offseason, but I don't know if he has the stones to add the high impact pieces this team needs.

AT Fresno wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:31 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mar ... out-jerry-
This is a pretty good article by Larry Stone. Since I don't read the Times, I usually miss this stuff. So I wonder what everyone thinks about Dipoto and his plan.... Do you have confidence in Dipoto's ability to evaluate talent? Breakout talent? Long range signings? Ability to develop talent or ability to hire right people to develop talent? Do you trust his long range plan?

I don't. Seattle is a second tier "Big Market" city. Will never have the financial resources of LA, Chicago, Boston, or New York, or Houston. These teams can throw big money at problems every season, so I don't like to compare Seattle with them. But Seattle should compare themselves with San Francisco, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, San Diego maybe and Toronto... and we are falling short.. I think there's a group of great young managers out there, for example.... Gabe Kapler (SF), Craig Counsel (Milwaukee), David Bell (Cin. Reds), Kevin Cash (Tampa Bay), and Scott Servais is not one of them. I think we had one great general manager in Pat Gillick and Dipoto is nowhere near his knowledge nor ability to select talent or run a franchise. I have been excited about the prospects gathered in the partial "rebuild", but I have little confidence in this management group's ability to develop or assemble them into winners. Seems like every debut, Kyle Lewis, Evan White, Taylor Trammell, Jarred Kelenic, Justus Sheffield, Justin Dunn, etc..... is followed by questions and disappointment.

I find myself jealously watching the Rays or the Giants or Milwaukee a lot right now, cause I enjoy team play and really good baseball... This year has been guilded with more luck than skill, imo. more frustration than satisfaction... more embarrassment than the pride I felt with Pinella's Mariners. I'm wondering where this is really going.... Thoughts?

Hard to say. Don't know how handcuffed he is. I like what he's done for the most part since the rebuild. Not really a fan of his moves when he was "going for it" though. I hope that his plan when they "go for it" will be to add to the top of the roster, not to the bottom. Getting a #1 or #2 starter and pushing everyone else down will do much more than finding another #5 starter. JK might not work out, but the trade for him was genius, and 28 other GM's would make that move (29 now that the Mets have a new GM). He signed Julio and the draft pick for Gilbert seems to have worked out. Lewis wasn't a bad pick, but the injuries have been a concern.

We'll see how things go next year. He's done enough to deserve that. They need to make the playoffs next year though.

What I have confidence in:

1. The draft talent that DiPoto has assembled over the last three years. I think we've drafted well, given our positions in each one, and the assembly of talent will serve us well, all things considered, and provided we don't trade it for pigs in a poke.
2. His ability to seek trade partners willing to pay an advantageous price for talent. The Cano and Nola trades come to mind.

What I don't have confidence in:

1. His bait and switch tactic on mounting a challenging, very competitive team. It seems to me that he talks out of both sides of his mouth sometimes.
2. His aggressiveness in dealing. Sometimes it seems he makes a deal just to make a deal. It's almost compulsive behavior, like an itch he has to scratch.
3. His willingness to hold field management and coaching accountable. His relationship with Servais is too tight.

Overall, I'd give him a 60% confidence factor at the moment.

You listed five things, three of which you have no confidence in him. I think you switched the 60%.

Michael K. wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:17 pm

You listed five things, three of which you have no confidence in him. I think you switched the 60%.

I think I subconsciously weighted them. Where I have confidence outweighs where I don't, although not by very much.

Petert wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:26 pm

Michael K. wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:17 pm

You listed five things, three of which you have no confidence in him. I think you switched the 60%.

I think I subconsciously weighted them. Where I have confidence outweighs where I don't, although not by very much.

I figured...was just poking a little fun. I hope you are right, because my confidence in this organization is at an all time low. He actually thought players and fans would be happy with the trade, because the guy we have seen labor thought the 9th the last two nights would make us forget Graveman? He is a dumbshit.

Here is what I can't stand about the guy. He states this and all his disciples nod and go, Genius! Don't mortgage the future! Well guess what, pal, unless it is a top 10 player in baseball you are NOT going to have to forfeit a real significant part of your future for a rental!!!

Also, why in the hell did he wait until days before the deadline before trading for Anderson. The Pirates have been out of it for MONTHS and he has made trades in May for God's sake but no he tells us time and time again that he had ZERO options other than Bullpen games. Nothing he could do. Starters don't grow on Trees. BS! He might have had to give up a slightly better prospect but we probably would have won more than 1 of the 8 BP games so it would have been worth it.

“What we don’t think makes a great deal of sense is forfeiting any real significant part of our future for short-term, rental-type gains,” he said July 22 on 710 ESPN Seattle’s Jerry Dipoto Show, “so we are focused on players who would be part of the Mariners beyond just 2021, and until further notice that’s our only focus.”

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1466245/ ... riners-do/

I have a problem with DiPoto's vision of the future. It seems that A) he didn't have enough faith in his club to fill obvious holes like 1B and DH. Thus he didn't do anything last winter to shore up those holes. He should have. B) Faced with an overperforming club, he did very little to help when they are close to making the playoffs in OVER 20 YEARS! The overused mantra of "Wait until next year" seems rather disingenuous and fraught with danger. C) I believe he presumes that every individual labled a "top tier" prospect is a sure fire All-Star. How is that White, Kelenic, Trammell thing working out? He should be using the farm system as currency to bring in guys like Toro, France, and Haniger when needed.

Further analysis, DiPoto has reached a point where he is afraid of making mistakes. Part of that problem is his inability to convince ownership that it is often better to add one or two free agents every year. They need to spread out expenditures. He has not been able to convince anyone that it is far easier to plug holes with Free Agents instead of waiting for all the talent to mature at one time. If a prospect proves they are ready, bring them up and trade the former free agent.

And the final nail in the coffin is that DiPoto doesn't play well with others. The first example is his inability to move ownership into spending a little every year. The second example was his handling of the Graveman Trade. He should have done that either before or after the ASStros series. Not during.

AT Fresno wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:31 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mar ... out-jerry-
This is a pretty good article by Larry Stone. Since I don't read the Times, I usually miss this stuff. So I wonder what everyone thinks about Dipoto and his plan.... Do you have confidence in Dipoto's ability to evaluate talent? Breakout talent? Long range signings? Ability to develop talent or ability to hire right people to develop talent? Do you trust his long range plan?

I don't. Seattle is a second tier "Big Market" city. Will never have the financial resources of LA, Chicago, Boston, or New York, or Houston. These teams can throw big money at problems every season, so I don't like to compare Seattle with them. But Seattle should compare themselves with San Francisco, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, San Diego maybe and Toronto... and we are falling short.. I think there's a group of great young managers out there, for example.... Gabe Kapler (SF), Craig Counsel (Milwaukee), David Bell (Cin. Reds), Kevin Cash (Tampa Bay), and Scott Servais is not one of them. I think we had one great general manager in Pat Gillick and Dipoto is nowhere near his knowledge nor ability to select talent or run a franchise. I have been excited about the prospects gathered in the partial "rebuild", but I have little confidence in this management group's ability to develop or assemble them into winners. Seems like every debut, Kyle Lewis, Evan White, Taylor Trammell, Jarred Kelenic, Justus Sheffield, Justin Dunn, etc..... is followed by questions and disappointment.

I find myself jealously watching the Rays or the Giants or Milwaukee a lot right now, cause I enjoy team play and really good baseball... This year has been guilded with more luck than skill, imo. more frustration than satisfaction... more embarrassment than the pride I felt with Pinella's Mariners. I'm wondering where this is really going.... Thoughts?

The problem with this post is you are laying everything as one thing.

You go into market size and ability to be top spenders. You might as well mention the SEA ttle thing South East Alaska top left corner of the country.

Managers,

Talent eval

contracts

Trades

Team building

vision, predicting the future.
I mean look at Walker vs Paxton. Through his 1st 16 starts Walker looked like an Ace he has got bombed his last 3 starts and now only has a 105 ERA+.

Contracts to Marco and White

As far as finishing the team off we have got to establish a few young underpaid "core" group to add the over the top moves in FA and trade.Gilbert-Hancock-Kirby-JK-Julio-Lewis-Marco-Justus-Dunn-Cal-Marte-JP-Ford.
Once we are leading the division with an ERA+ over 100 and TOR's locked up then we could go ahead and give up top 100 prospect(s) for an Ace to be better than the rest.

I liked that we didn't go for it if the other clubs were asking for Kirby-Julio-or Hancock + for Whit fn Merrifield. Same with Minny with Berrios.

Like most subjects I really can't say "all of____" "Never____" , "Always do____".

I don't hate all of JD's decisions. I don't love all of JD's decisions.

He has a plan in place to acquire young controlled parts. His vision is working I don't think many can argue he has taken one of the worst farms to one of the best. He used Sugar to get out from under the Cano dead money or most of it. He picked off JK, and Dunn for the pleasure. He has plucked scraps and polished them getting Nola for a nickle and flipping that to: Torrens-France-Trammell-Munoz. The Gravey trade getting Toro.

One of his strong traights may be developing BP guys. I remember some of them were, "like coming here was great they turned on the lights for me and now I shine!" Leadingt up to the trade even with losing time from some of their best Gravey-Swanson the M's BP was #1 in WAR in baseball.