Mariner Talk Chat Forum

Hard to argue with that. He didn't even lead his own team in WAR and was 5th in the AL. Ichiro won the MVP because he was a novelty and did things in a way that nobody had seen before. Kind of the same way that Trey Mancini won the Comeback player of the year award this year.

BTW the M's had 5 position players in the top 15 for WAR in 2001 no wonder they won 116 games.

I always thought Boone should have been MVP in 2001 but then again Ichiro did it without steroids, so…

SeattlesportsRus won't appreciate this.

I am kinda chocked AT isn't all over this thread with his irrational hatred of all things Ichiro

Gillick was such a mastermind the way he put the 2000-2001 teams together. Sasaki, Nelson, Rhodes, Charlton, Olerud, Boone, Ichiro, McLemore, Javier, Sele, getting Cameron back when he had no leverage in that trade. Brilliant.

Sibelius Hindemith wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:03 am

Gillick was such a mastermind the way he put the 2000-2001 teams together. Sasaki, Nelson, Rhodes, Charlton, Olerud, Boone, Ichiro, McLemore, Javier, Sele, getting Cameron back when he had no leverage in that trade. Brilliant.

I think if they didn't trade him they get 1 more HOF season out of him and at the time they would have gotten Cinci's #1 Rd. pick if FA. SO that is the leverage he had.

That is what makes it super frustrating: I like Jrod, Kirby, Brash, Gilbert, France, Marte, etc
But what if they had kept everybody and went for it in 2000 and or 2001
Rotation (Add a FA or trade for a decent 2 or 3)
Randy Johnson 184 ERA+
Moyer 129 ERA+
Gil Meche 105 ERA+
Fassero 67 OPS+
line-up studs Griffey, ARod, Edgar

It is just so BS that you had a team that had Griffey, ARod, Edgar, and one of the best pitchers of all time Randy Johnson and did not make the moves to win a WS.

Especially when they then Added Ichiro, Boone, Olerud,

Randy and Griffey pretty much forced those trades. RJ was practically throwing his starts and KG threw a massive tantrum over the new stadium. And we all know why A-Fraud left.

For 2001 I would have gone Boone/Giambi/Ichiro, but Ichiro was such a big story and as was pointed out Boone and Giambi juiced their way to the top, so I'd give the writers a pass on that one.

On the other hand, Ichiro should have won in 2004 when he got 262 hits, batted .372, and his 9.2 WAR was by far the best in the AL. MVP winner Vladimir Guerrero's was 5.6

Pharmabro wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:53 am

I am kinda chocked AT isn't all over this thread with his irrational hatred of all things Ichiro

Its neither irrational nor hatred. Some guy replied that the guy that started this just hates Asians even though the guy clearly and statistically outlined his case. Pretty amazing we all want Suzuki 2.0 given our hatred of Asians isn't it.