Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

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D-train
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Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by D-train » Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:20 pm

MLB teams literally spend MILLIONS on analytics departments which are staffed with dozens of Ivy league nerds. Do you honestly think that in 2022 a GM is going to look at a RH power hitter that played at Coors or Fenway that had a .900 OPS and think they are better than a RH power hitter that played at T Mobile that had a .850 OPS???? Uh, Story had two more HRs than France. He HAS to be a better power hitter! :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol:

For Fucks Sakes let's get out of the dark ages. Teams are WELL aware that T Mobile is a bad place to hit and probably have super computers to show exactly how it compares to other parks.

Guys are not going to suffer in FA because they played here. There stats will be adjusted and they will get just as much as they would if they had played in other parks.

As for the other nonsense about they don't want to come here because we suck. So how exactly do you explain Bryant to the Rockies, Correa to the Twins and Seager and Semien to the Rangers???? Last season we won 16 games more than the Rockies, 17 more than the Twins and 30 more than the Rangers. Explain that.

We aren't signing guys because they don't want to SPEND MONEY. Stop trying to channel JD and over think the fuck out of it.
dt

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D-train
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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by D-train » Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:32 pm

More nonsense about why FAs won't come here. Actually the Seattle school system might be a more legitimate reason. lol
dt

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:04 pm

I agree for the most part, but the record books generally don't have advanced stats and some players may care about how many hits, home runs, and RBIs they can compile in their careers. I doubt it's as important as money and geography largely because i think most good hitters think they can hit anywhere.

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D-train
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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by D-train » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:06 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:04 pm
I agree for the most part, but the record books generally don't have advanced stats and some players may care about how many hits, home runs, and RBIs they can compile in their careers. I doubt it's as important as money and geography largely because i think most good hitters think they can hit anywhere.
Yeah I guess players could be unaware of the level of analytics but not sure how they can think that GM won't consider the ballpark that they put up their numbers. If guys are that dumb we probably don't won't them any way. lol
dt

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Case_Of_The_Runs
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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by Case_Of_The_Runs » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:18 pm

As for the other nonsense about they don't want to come here because we suck. So how exactly do you explain Bryant to the Rockies, Correa to the Twins and Seager and Semien to the Rangers???? Last season we won 16 games more than the Rockies, 17 more than the Twins and 30 more than the Rangers. Explain that.
Well, there may be lots of ways of skinning that cat. For starters, who knows what goes on the brains of talented free agents plumbing the depths of free agency. We may never know since (a) there's lots of them and they are likely all thinking different things, (b) they are being influenced by their agents who have their own agendas, and (c) so far as I know no one on this board is a former MLB player, so we're all just spitballing.

But my dad always says that opinions are like assholes - everyone has one. She here's mine (opinion...not asshole):

Free agents want to make a ton of money. Who doesn't? Their agents get a cut of whatever they make, so they want to make a ton of money as well. Baseball players have a shelf life measured in years, not decades, so they want to make bank as soon as they can for as long as they can. They are always betting against declines due to age and injury, so long term contracts like Cano's are better than short term contracts (unless you're in your late-30's and you sort of take what you can get and prove yourself for the next short contract like Nelson Cruz). What does all of this mean vis-a-vis the M's recent offseason? Likely it means that the top FAs want top dollar, and the M's weren't willing to pay big bucks for long contracts (once bitten twice shy...Robbie Cano). We just didn't open our wallets. The Rangers paid stupid money for 2 of the biggest FA names. Why? Dunno. They aren't a contending team yet. But maybe they just want to please their fanbase and get asses in seats while the M's have different priorities.

Look, we could have landed any of the big names in FA this year. We could easily have landed Correa or Semien or Suzuki or Bryant or any of the other wet dream, big names being bandied about here. Hell, we could have landed 2 or 3 of them (like the Rangers did) if money was no object. So either the M's didn't want to spend big, or they made offers that were rejected because the FA had other priorities besides money.

What other priorities might they have? I don't know. I am not a metrics guy like most of you all are, so I don't know if a drop in batting average due to the barometric pressure at sea level, or the position of the walls in the outfield, or the flavor of the urinal cakes in the locker room are relevant factors. As D-Train points out, even if your metrics do take a hit because the M's have a pitcher's ballpark and the toughest, most tiring schedule in baseball, that future ball clubs will look at these numbers and add a fudge factor (much like colleges do in assessing students and making GPA adjustments if they taker honors or AP classes).

Maybe there's a personal element to the decision making. Hell, I bet that most of us have interviewed places and got a bad vibe or a looming sense that we wouldn't fit into the culture there. Maybe it's not that we suck, but it's because we have a culture of sucking. There's a difference. Who knows what players say about the M's management. The fanbase wants to win, but without the support of management, you're going to join a club and get cheered by the fans but not so much as a reach around by the GM and owner. Maybe they want to join a club where they see potential - where they can make a difference in winning a pennant, or where they can be a big fish in a small pond. Maybe they want to join a team with teammates they have played with before.

In short, there's a ton of factors that go into decisions that FAs make, and I don't think we can distill it down to a single factor and call it a day. But I do believe that the M's had the budget to make serious offers to any of the big names this offseason. So either they didn't (and that's my guess), or they did and they were rejected for a host of other factors. As I have said previously, I think JD and management are waiting for JRod and his legion of pitching prospects to get a year of MLB experience, and then he will splurge next offseason. Then again, maybe he won't...Jerry seems to like swap meets more than retail. He'd rather trade for a Pinto hoping it's got a few good years in it than open his wallet and buy a new Ford F350.

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Lamda
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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by Lamda » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:26 pm

I'm no dip apologist but I see where he's going with this. His 'big rebuild' is just starting to come into focus. So even though we got a hole now in a spot here/there he see's a kid ready to take it either right now or by mid-season, or worst case beginning of next year. So he doesn't want to go out and sign a bunch of people to only end up blocking those players. I think he made enough additions this year to get us into the playoffs - especially now that they are almost taking half the teams in the league to the playoffs now lol.

As per your spending the $ on FA's - they are fine to spend the $$ so long as it is smart $$. Why did Bryant go to the Rockies? Cause they gave him an incredibly bad deal. Would you really rather we matched that or even made it worse by increasing it? The comparison of Seattle to other clubs is valid if they are offering similar contracts, obviously. But we gotta Cano every contract for big players now cause we have sucked for so long. Thankfully Ray wanted to come here or that contract could have got obscene. I have never bought into France though - I really would have loved to see us swoop in and nap Freeman out of FA when nobody was looking. 30mill/year for him I would have been fine with. Or hell - figured out what it took to get Olsen and got him for the cheap amount of 21mill/year.

I know you don't want to hear this cause you are in enjoying your bitch-session, lol, but if all goes well in 2-3 years we'll need a lot of the money we aren't spending today to re-sign our own players and when that rolls around we're going to find we don't have enough.

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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by Seattle or Bust » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:30 pm

D-train wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:32 pm
More nonsense about why FAs won't come here. Actually the Seattle school system might be a more legitimate reason. lol
School systems? They're millionaires.

They're going to be living in Medina, Kirkland, Bellevue, Sammamish or some shit where the schools are the best in the country.

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Case_Of_The_Runs
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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by Case_Of_The_Runs » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:31 pm

Lamda wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:26 pm
I know you don't want to hear this cause you are in enjoying your bitch-session, lol, but if all goes well in 2-3 years we'll need a lot of the money we aren't spending today to re-sign our own players and when that rolls around we're going to find we don't have enough.
Agree 100%. We are upset because we saw so much talent slip through our fingers and can't imagine why. I am as upset as anyone. But (a) don't throw bad money away after good, and (b) it's likely that JD and management want to wait 1 more year before splurging (I am sounding like a broken record here).

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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by Seattle or Bust » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:44 pm

Case_Of_The_Runs wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:31 pm
Lamda wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:26 pm
I know you don't want to hear this cause you are in enjoying your bitch-session, lol, but if all goes well in 2-3 years we'll need a lot of the money we aren't spending today to re-sign our own players and when that rolls around we're going to find we don't have enough.
Agree 100%. We are upset because we saw so much talent slip through our fingers and can't imagine why. I am as upset as anyone. But (a) don't throw bad money away after good, and (b) it's likely that JD and management want to wait 1 more year before splurging (I am sounding like a broken record here).
I tend to agree with this sentiment too.

That said, next year's free agent class is looking pretty bad if Judge and Turner re-up with their respective teams.

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Case_Of_The_Runs
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Re: Ok let's bust these idiotic myths once and for all

Post by Case_Of_The_Runs » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:48 pm

Seattle or Bust wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:44 pm
Case_Of_The_Runs wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:31 pm
Lamda wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:26 pm
I know you don't want to hear this cause you are in enjoying your bitch-session, lol, but if all goes well in 2-3 years we'll need a lot of the money we aren't spending today to re-sign our own players and when that rolls around we're going to find we don't have enough.
Agree 100%. We are upset because we saw so much talent slip through our fingers and can't imagine why. I am as upset as anyone. But (a) don't throw bad money away after good, and (b) it's likely that JD and management want to wait 1 more year before splurging (I am sounding like a broken record here).
I tend to agree with this sentiment too.

That said, next year's free agent class is looking pretty bad if Judge and Turner re-up with their respective teams.
I totally agree. I feel that JD made 21 mistakes this offseaon: he should have done one this and not done another. Specifically, he should have signed a stud SS like Seager or Correa. Spend big this off season on a young, talented infielder. He should NOT have promised JP he'd be at SS and France at 1st. That took us out of the running with any free agent SS or 1B not willing to move positions.

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