Harry Ford tracker

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D-train
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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by D-train » Sat May 14, 2022 12:18 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:49 am
I think it can be helpful for a prospect to suck occasionally, be challenged, learn to adjust. I've wondered if that's an issue with JK. He had never been challenged until he hit the majors
He only hit .253 in AA and was treated like he hit .453.
dt

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Donn Beach
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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by Donn Beach » Sat May 14, 2022 12:42 pm

Yeah, like zunino being promoted even though he hadn't really shown he had succeeded... There's Jrod, he might seemed to have sailed through the minors but there was the winter ball in the DR. He struggled and he commented on it. He felt it was a learning experience.

SS on the experience
. “It’s changed his way of thinking. That’s how you need to think to be a competitor and a winner at the big-league level. Big growth moment for him, being around those older players has really changed his outlook on the game.”

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Sat May 14, 2022 2:40 pm

Kelenic has been 50% talent and 50% hype since the trade. The reality is he has never been anything close to a can't miss type of prospect. I'm guessing the Mets FO understood his mental "deficiencies" at least well enough to nake him expendable.

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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by GL_Storm » Sat May 14, 2022 7:43 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:49 am
I think it can be helpful for a prospect to suck occasionally, be challenged, learn to adjust. I've wondered if that's an issue with JK. He had never been challenged until he hit the majors
That could be part of it, though his AA numbers weren't anything special so there was some challenge there for him. The glaring issue, in my mind, is that he was rushed through the system and sort of anointed as the next great Mariners hitter without being challenged to really master his game at AA or AAA. The Mariners should have been more critical of his flaws. Ty France hit .399 at AAA in 2019, which sort of forced the Padres to pay attention to him. France also had more than 2000 minor league plate appearances before he got to the majors, whereas Kelenic, to date, has a total of 894 minor league PAs and 473 in the majors. And this is probably the most difficult environment for hitters that has ever existed at MLB.

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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by Coeurd’Alene J » Sat May 14, 2022 7:51 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:40 pm
Kelenic has been 50% talent and 50% hype since the trade. The reality is he has never been anything close to a can't miss type of prospect. I'm guessing the Mets FO understood his mental "deficiencies" at least well enough to nake him expendable.
And Jerry once he had him and must have had a dozen or more professional eyes on him should have known about his mental makeup. It’s inexcusable and Jerry had his head up his ass

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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by Hasslecracked » Sat May 14, 2022 9:36 pm

Coeurd’Alene J wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 7:51 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:40 pm
Kelenic has been 50% talent and 50% hype since the trade. The reality is he has never been anything close to a can't miss type of prospect. I'm guessing the Mets FO understood his mental "deficiencies" at least well enough to nake him expendable.
And Jerry once he had him and must have had a dozen or more professional eyes on him should have known about his mental makeup. It’s inexcusable and Jerry had his head up his ass
The kids 23. Give it some time

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D-train
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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by D-train » Sat May 14, 2022 9:45 pm

What he has shown is not encouraging. Kelenic is hitting .140 in 96 plate appearances this year, with 36 strikeouts in 86 at-bats for a 37.5 percent strikeout rate. Overall, his average in 123 games is .173, which Joel Sherman of the New York Post pointed out is the lowest in history for players with at least 450 plate appearances in the first two years of their career.
So now its no longer just no player EVER has started this bad and become a good hitter, its now no player in the history of baseball has EVER started this bad. Full Stop. :|
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Donn Beach
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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by Donn Beach » Sun May 15, 2022 2:46 am

GL_Storm wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 7:43 pm
Donn Beach wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:49 am
I think it can be helpful for a prospect to suck occasionally, be challenged, learn to adjust. I've wondered if that's an issue with JK. He had never been challenged until he hit the majors
That could be part of it, though his AA numbers weren't anything special so there was some challenge there for him. The glaring issue, in my mind, is that he was rushed through the system and sort of anointed as the next great Mariners hitter without being challenged to really master his game at AA or AAA. The Mariners should have been more critical of his flaws. Ty France hit .399 at AAA in 2019, which sort of forced the Padres to pay attention to him. France also had more than 2000 minor league plate appearances before he got to the majors, whereas Kelenic, to date, has a total of 894 minor league PAs and 473 in the majors. And this is probably the most difficult environment for hitters that has ever existed at MLB.
But he wasn't given a chance to respond. And I really don't think it's about just getting at bats. It needs to be a growth process. That's why I don't know if there is much to be gained with JK being sent down again. I think the challenge now is at the ML level.

Edgar's number his first minor league season age 20

173/ .304/ .202

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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by GL_Storm » Sun May 15, 2022 6:36 am

Donn Beach wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 2:46 am
GL_Storm wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 7:43 pm
Donn Beach wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:49 am
I think it can be helpful for a prospect to suck occasionally, be challenged, learn to adjust. I've wondered if that's an issue with JK. He had never been challenged until he hit the majors
That could be part of it, though his AA numbers weren't anything special so there was some challenge there for him. The glaring issue, in my mind, is that he was rushed through the system and sort of anointed as the next great Mariners hitter without being challenged to really master his game at AA or AAA. The Mariners should have been more critical of his flaws. Ty France hit .399 at AAA in 2019, which sort of forced the Padres to pay attention to him. France also had more than 2000 minor league plate appearances before he got to the majors, whereas Kelenic, to date, has a total of 894 minor league PAs and 473 in the majors. And this is probably the most difficult environment for hitters that has ever existed at MLB.
But he wasn't given a chance to respond. And I really don't think it's about just getting at bats. It needs to be a growth process. That's why I don't know if there is much to be gained with JK being sent down again. I think the challenge now is at the ML level.

Edgar's number his first minor league season age 20

173/ .304/ .202
Edgar's first minor league numbers are kind of famous, but not at all reflective of his minor league career.

I think last year, you and I had the same opinion, that he needed to learn at the major league level because AAA didn't pose enough of a challenge. At the same time, there was talk among some of the prospect people that AAA pitching was historically bad in 2021. And so in that context, I thought it made some sense to bring him back up after hitting .320/.392/.624 in 30 games. But I'm really wondering about that now because 30 games is a pretty small sample size and because as best I can tell, most major leaguers get something like 1500 to 2500 plate appearances in the minors to prepare them and JK never got anything like that. You can say the same about Julio but the evidence (so far) seems to indicate that he's handling the jump pretty well.

As for what he can learn down there, I hope they have a plan for his issues with the lower quarter of the strike zone and just below. I think that means a swing change, which I think he's been working on. I mean, there's clearly an issue with both contact and driving the ball effectively in that part of the zone, and it's actually quite a bit worse than last year, which is just bizarre. How does that even happen?

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Donn Beach
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Re: Harry Ford tracker

Post by Donn Beach » Sun May 15, 2022 7:04 am

I'm not talking about before, just the idea of going back down for remedial work. I have never seen it as very effective. Zunino, Ackley, Smoak all got sent down without much affect.

In terms of what they want him to work on, if you read what they say. I think it's pretty specific, doesn't seem a function of his struggles in general but more the last handful of games. He had lost focus on his approach


.Justin Hollander, the Mariners’ assistant general manager
Nobody thinks this is mechanical. Nobody thinks it’s a talent issue. … I was talking to somebody the other day; they call it the transition tax that you pay with the difference between the minor leagues and the big leagues that has never been greater. And he just needs reps against competition to remember how good he is again.”
.“I think his process was good for a stretch, and he wasn’t getting results,” Hollander said. “And I think that sort of manifested itself in chasing results a little bit and getting away from his process. He’ll go down, he’ll take a breath. He’ll come up with a plan that works for him. That he’s confident in. And my guess is, when he’s ready, he’ll be back and he’s going to be a really good player at that point.”
You send a guy down to give him a break, remind him he is a good hitter, some positive results, but it's not like they are going to have an epitheny or something

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