trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

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Juliooooo
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by Juliooooo » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:02 pm

Sexymarinersfan wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:42 pm
Juliooooo wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:28 pm
D-train wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:18 pm
Ok, Drury is my new target. Good cheap and versatile. FA at the end of the season.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... br01.shtml
One good season, much better at home (OPS 120 points higher). Will be hit at T-mobile? If you can get him for not much, sure, but don't be surprised if he doesn't keep up the same numbers after leaving Cincinnati.
Doesn't get on basemuch. Strikes out often. Will his numbers translate from that tiny bandbox?
I wouldn't hate it, but I expect Frazier to be better in the second half. Hopefully the All Star break is a good rest for him.
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by Sexymarinersfan » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:04 pm

Juliooooo wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:02 pm
Sexymarinersfan wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:42 pm
Juliooooo wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:28 pm


One good season, much better at home (OPS 120 points higher). Will be hit at T-mobile? If you can get him for not much, sure, but don't be surprised if he doesn't keep up the same numbers after leaving Cincinnati.
Doesn't get on basemuch. Strikes out often. Will his numbers translate from that tiny bandbox?
I wouldn't hate it, but I expect Frazier to be better in the second half. Hopefully the All Star break is a good rest for him.
I mean I would expect something between now and what he did as an All-Star. There's talent there. Not sure why he's not tapping into it. Same with Winker.

Vogelbomb
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by Vogelbomb » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:07 pm

Can we limit the moronic talk around here? Like trading Cal Raleigh. That's pure crazy-talk. You say something like that in the open around people and you may just find yourself committed to Broadmoor.

Considering how hard it is to find an elite 2-way catcher, he's perhaps just as valuable as J-Rod right now. Honestly, you have to start thinking about Cal and what he brings to this team from the C spot in those terms. Other untouchables on this roster include Julio, Logan, Kirby.

Untouchables on the farm -- for me -- include Ford, Marte, E Arroyo, Gonzalez.

Now, I don't quite understand looking to add an SP when that's the strength of this club. We're not losing games b.c of the rotation. So you turn attention to the offense, but that's finally coming around. Not to mention the team is adding about three bats here in short order, two of which have barely been in the lineup. You also just added Santana and Haggerty and they're starting to produce. Toro is waking up.

I think going out there and trying to find a 100 pt ops upgrade on Winker or Frazier is really dicey. It may not play out that way and now you've given up potentially a package like the Pads gave us for Austin Nola and Taylor Williams at the deadline. Do you want to look back in 2 yrs and see Marte, Hancock, Kelenic etc killing it in some other org and wonder, what the hell did we give those guys up for? I hate when we as a franchise have this short term view instead of always considering the long term interests of the club.

Besides, we probably already have the upgrade to Frazier on this club in Dylan Moore. We probably already have the upgrade to Jesse Winker on this club. 2nd half Jesse Winker. We have the upgrade at DH in Kyle Lewis and Carlos Santana. We could see a .400 ops improvement at the dh spot alone. That's massive.

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Juliooooo
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by Juliooooo » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:13 pm

Vogelbomb wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:07 pm
Can we limit the moronic talk around here? Like trading Cal Raleigh. That's pure crazy-talk. You say something like that in the open around people and you may just find yourself committed to Broadmoor.

Considering how hard it is to find an elite 2-way catcher, he's perhaps just as valuable as J-Rod right now. Honestly, you have to start thinking about Cal and what he brings to this team from the C spot in those terms. Other untouchables on this roster include Julio, Logan, Kirby.

Untouchables on the farm -- for me -- include Ford, Marte, E Arroyo, Gonzalez.

Now, I don't quite understand looking to add an SP when that's the strength of this club. We're not losing games b.c of the rotation. So you turn attention to the offense, but that's finally coming around. Not to mention the team is adding about three bats here in short order, two of which have barely been in the lineup. You also just added Santana and Haggerty and they're starting to produce. Toro is waking up.

I think going out there and trying to find a 100 pt ops upgrade on Winker or Frazier is really dicey. It may not play out that way and now you've given up potentially a package like the Pads gave us for Austin Nola and Taylor Williams at the deadline. Do you want to look back in 2 yrs and see Marte, Hancock, Kelenic etc killing it in some other org and wonder, what the hell did we give those guys up for? I hate when we as a franchise have this short term view instead of always considering the long term interests of the club.

Besides, we probably already have the upgrade to Frazier on this club in Dylan Moore. We probably already have the upgrade to Jesse Winker on this club. 2nd half Jesse Winker. We have the upgrade at DH in Kyle Lewis and Carlos Santana. We could see a .400 ops improvement at the dh spot alone. That's massive.
Carlos Santana was a huge addition to this team. To have his as DH and punch hitter? That's great. If Haniger and Lewis can play and stay healthy, there aren't a lot of holes. That's a big if though. Moore Toro platoon at 2B might be the best bet if Frazier isn't doing well. Maybe France at 2B against lefties instead of Toro of they feel comfortable with him there.
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by Sexymarinersfan » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:14 pm

Vogelbomb wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:07 pm
Can we limit the moronic talk around here? Like trading Cal Raleigh. That's pure crazy-talk. You say something like that in the open around people and you may just find yourself committed to Broadmoor.

Considering how hard it is to find an elite 2-way catcher, he's perhaps just as valuable as J-Rod right now. Honestly, you have to start thinking about Cal and what he brings to this team from the C spot in those terms. Other untouchables on this roster include Julio, Logan, Kirby.

Untouchables on the farm -- for me -- include Ford, Marte, E Arroyo, Gonzalez.

Now, I don't quite understand looking to add an SP when that's the strength of this club. We're not losing games b.c of the rotation. So you turn attention to the offense, but that's finally coming around. Not to mention the team is adding about three bats here in short order, two of which have barely been in the lineup. You also just added Santana and Haggerty and they're starting to produce. Toro is waking up.

I think going out there and trying to find a 100 pt ops upgrade on Winker or Frazier is really dicey. It may not play out that way and now you've given up potentially a package like the Pads gave us for Austin Nola and Taylor Williams at the deadline. Do you want to look back in 2 yrs and see Marte, Hancock, Kelenic etc killing it in some other org and wonder, what the hell did we give those guys up for? I hate when we as a franchise have this short term view instead of always considering the long term interests of the club.

Besides, we probably already have the upgrade to Frazier on this club in Dylan Moore. We probably already have the upgrade to Jesse Winker on this club. 2nd half Jesse Winker. We have the upgrade at DH in Kyle Lewis and Carlos Santana. We could see a .400 ops improvement at the dh spot alone. That's massive.
"Liked" We probably already have the upgrade to Jesse Winker on this club. 2nd half Jesse Winker. :lol:

Thats awesome!

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Donn Beach
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by Donn Beach » Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:30 pm

Juliooooo wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:08 am
Donn Beach wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:52 am
Okay, thanks...I was thinking they were three games under.

If you are going to deal in WAR as your resource, I don't see the DH as being an easy way to add wins, it's limit is pretty low. If you can pull 3 WAR out of the position you're doing good. I don't see the answer as having to sign a dh only guy. The sorts of guys you can really be confident in giving you premium WAR as a dh are few. I think it's more about having a productive lineup than finding a certain guy to do it. You invest in a DH, who's to say they don't under perform or end up on the DL like another winker or haniger.

I thought they had basically covered it when they got Winker. Fact is, if he was producing as was intended, Haniger and Lewis were in the lineup your dh is probably pretty well covered. That and how bad Toro and Frazier have been. That's where the adjustments need to be made, that gets you to your 2.5-3 WAR at the end of the day.

Terms of their negative WAR, I don't follow closely enough to know how much that's a function of utilizing the players at hand, why Toro gets so many at bats as a dh
Toro was never intended as a DH, he was supposed to be a part time 2B and 3B. He is playing DH due to injuries to Lewis, Haniger, and Trammell plus Torrens and Kelenic disappointing. Of he was playing the position he was intended to, his WAR would probably be about 0.
Actually I'd say you are wrong, nobody on the roster was there to dh, but in terms of how they view the role Toro was at the top of the list. At the beginning of the season when everyone was healthy toro was the leading dh. This from the beginning of the season on how the mariners planned to use the dh this season. It's an interesting article actually
.It’s no coincidence that Suárez and Toro have seen the most DH time this year. They are both natural third basemen, and the Mariners want to utilize Toro’s plus bat-to-ball skills in the lineup as often as possible, so it's been a flip-flop between those two.


https://www.mlb.com/news/mariners-talk- ... ted-hitter

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D-train
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by D-train » Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:14 pm

Juliooooo wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:02 pm
Sexymarinersfan wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:42 pm
Juliooooo wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:28 pm


One good season, much better at home (OPS 120 points higher). Will be hit at T-mobile? If you can get him for not much, sure, but don't be surprised if he doesn't keep up the same numbers after leaving Cincinnati.
Doesn't get on basemuch. Strikes out often. Will his numbers translate from that tiny bandbox?
I wouldn't hate it, but I expect Frazier to be better in the second half. Hopefully the All Star break is a good rest for him.
Its Drury because he wouldn't cost much more than Santana and there are almost no other options and he is a clear upgrade over Frazier.
dt

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Donn Beach
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by Donn Beach » Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:24 pm

I meant to add, Winker thinks it's brilliant, how they use the dh
“I think it's brilliant,” Winker said. “It’s a way to keep your guys locked into the game while letting them catch their breath. It's very useful to use it that way.”

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D-train
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by D-train » Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:27 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:24 pm
I meant to add, Winker thinks it's brilliant, how they use the dh
“I think it's brilliant,” Winker said. “It’s a way to keep your guys locked into the game while letting them catch their breath. It's very useful to use it that way.”
LOL 2nd worst wRC+ in baseball but it is brilliant. He doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. :roll:
dt

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seattlefan-daBronx
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Re: trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

Post by seattlefan-daBronx » Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:15 pm

I wonder if any of the players have ever read this stuff?

Would love to hear their reactions. :D
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