Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

harmony
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by harmony » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:45 pm

bpj wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:31 pm
Bil522 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:14 am
bpj wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:17 pm


Being ranked 14th is perfectly fine, unless you're trying to make the playoffs.

JP didn't become a problem until they extended him and assured him a spot even though he's clearly becoming one of our weak links in year one, even though he's pretty much being what he's always been, ok.

On a playoff team there are only so many moves you can make to add even marginal improvement. JP having a contract assures him a spot, even though it's one of the easiest/biggest improvements they could make.

It's like a problem that's not a problem except that it's kind of a problem. They committed to average and paid for it. Just an odd move. Like giving Evan White a contract.

White, with a .361 OPS in AAA this season before they made up whatever is now wrong with him as an excuse.
The biggest problem with JP is that he is totally miscast as a 5 hole hitter....or any kind of top of the rotation hitter. He needs to be placed in the 8 or 9 hole and just left down there. Heck a .260ish hitter down there would be a Godsend from the past 3 years of .160 hitters.
True, but the problem is starting next year he's making $11M+ per season which would currently be about 10% of the M's total payroll.

Not many 8/9 hitters making that kind of cheese.

At the moment the average cost per player on the Mariners ($104M total payroll / 26 man roster) is $4M per player.

In that case JP represents almost 3x the average. Pretty sketchy imo.
What if the alternative is paying Dansby Swanson $20+ million annually over a multiyear contract?

https://www.batterypower.com/2022/6/15/ ... ree-agency

ZiPS projects 2023 and 2024 WAR of 2.9 and 2.6 for J.P. Crawford and 2.5 and 2.4 for Dansby Swanson, who is a year older than Crawford.

For years teams would overpay a free agent coming off a career year. That happens less frequently these days.

Dansby Swanson is having a fabulous 2022 season. However, a short year ago Swanson posted 3.4 fWAR and 1.9 bWAR in 160 games while J.P. Crawford posted 3.3 fWAR and 3.8 bWAR in 160 games.

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bpj
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by bpj » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:48 pm

I wouldn't touch Swanson, but Trea Turner would be worth a look at this point, I don't care how much money they save or lose (they're clearly not reinvesting savings into the roster so why should I), we need improvement where it's available.

The Mariners have already passed on at least 5 solid trade/free agent candidates because they had JP, it's not like it was JP or Swanson from the get-go.

They need to trade some fluff this offseason. I'd trade Marco and Flexen and sign a guy like Rodon. We have enough guys who can fill the 5 spot, might as well add to the top, again.

Plenty of ways to come up with a quality shortstop (in a Marco or Flexen deal, for example) is what I'm getting at. But, now we know they won't because JP's locked up.

ice99
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by ice99 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:53 pm

I disagreed with JD's decision to lock-in people at certain positions. I submit that signing a FA SS to boost your offense is an expensive way to go. Get them at 1B/DH, or even at 2B.

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bpj
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by bpj » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:55 pm

ice99 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:53 pm
I disagreed with JD's decision to lock-in people at certain positions. I submit that signing a FA SS to boost your offense is an expensive way to go. Get them at 1B/DH, or even at 2B.
I don't disagree at all with that, shorstops do get a premium. That's pretty much because most of the rest of them hit like JP though.

Better deals (and more impact) to be had in RF and at DH than SS without question.

ice99
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by ice99 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:57 pm

bpj wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:55 pm
ice99 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:53 pm
I disagreed with JD's decision to lock-in people at certain positions. I submit that signing a FA SS to boost your offense is an expensive way to go. Get them at 1B/DH, or even at 2B.
I don't disagree at all with that, shorstops do get a premium. That's pretty much because most of the rest of them hit like JP though.

Better deals (and more impact) to be had in RF and at DH than SS without question.
Yes, RF and LF too.

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D-train
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by D-train » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:16 pm

ice99 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:57 pm
bpj wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:55 pm
ice99 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:53 pm
I disagreed with JD's decision to lock-in people at certain positions. I submit that signing a FA SS to boost your offense is an expensive way to go. Get them at 1B/DH, or even at 2B.
I don't disagree at all with that, shorstops do get a premium. That's pretty much because most of the rest of them hit like JP though.

Better deals (and more impact) to be had in RF and at DH than SS without question.
Yes, RF and LF too.
Yes, getting a new LF and moving Winker to DH should help both O and D.
dt

harmony
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by harmony » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:18 pm

bpj wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:48 pm
I wouldn't touch Swanson, but Trea Turner would be worth a look at this point, I don't care how much money they save or lose (they're clearly not reinvesting savings into the roster so why should I), we need improvement where it's available.

The Mariners have already passed on at least 5 solid trade/free agent candidates because they had JP, it's not like it was JP or Swanson from the get-go.

They need to trade some fluff this offseason. I'd trade Marco and Flexen and sign a guy like Rodon. We have enough guys who can fill the 5 spot, might as well add to the top, again.

Plenty of ways to come up with a quality shortstop (in a Marco or Flexen deal, for example) is what I'm getting at. But, now we know they won't because JP's locked up.
What shortstop upgrade from J.P. Crawford could the Mariners land, for example, in a trade of Marco Gonzales or Chris Flexen?

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D-train
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by D-train » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:19 pm

harmony wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:18 pm
bpj wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:48 pm
I wouldn't touch Swanson, but Trea Turner would be worth a look at this point, I don't care how much money they save or lose (they're clearly not reinvesting savings into the roster so why should I), we need improvement where it's available.

The Mariners have already passed on at least 5 solid trade/free agent candidates because they had JP, it's not like it was JP or Swanson from the get-go.

They need to trade some fluff this offseason. I'd trade Marco and Flexen and sign a guy like Rodon. We have enough guys who can fill the 5 spot, might as well add to the top, again.

Plenty of ways to come up with a quality shortstop (in a Marco or Flexen deal, for example) is what I'm getting at. But, now we know they won't because JP's locked up.
What shortstop upgrade from J.P. Crawford could the Mariners land, for example, in a trade of Marco Gonzales or Chris Flexen?
:) I am assuming they would be the throw ins?
dt

harmony
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by harmony » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:25 pm

D-train wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:19 pm
harmony wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:18 pm
bpj wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:48 pm
I wouldn't touch Swanson, but Trea Turner would be worth a look at this point, I don't care how much money they save or lose (they're clearly not reinvesting savings into the roster so why should I), we need improvement where it's available.

The Mariners have already passed on at least 5 solid trade/free agent candidates because they had JP, it's not like it was JP or Swanson from the get-go.

They need to trade some fluff this offseason. I'd trade Marco and Flexen and sign a guy like Rodon. We have enough guys who can fill the 5 spot, might as well add to the top, again.

Plenty of ways to come up with a quality shortstop (in a Marco or Flexen deal, for example) is what I'm getting at. But, now we know they won't because JP's locked up.
What shortstop upgrade from J.P. Crawford could the Mariners land, for example, in a trade of Marco Gonzales or Chris Flexen?
:) I am assuming they would be the throw ins?
After Cal Raleigh or George Kirby?

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D-train
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Re: Mariners can't hit at T-Mobile game thread (Ms vs Angels)

Post by D-train » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:39 pm

Maybe a trade with the Cubs for Nico Hoerner. JP + Flexen JP into their currently 26th ranked Rotation.

Nico is 26 yo with a .750 OPS, 2.8 WAR and locked up through 2025.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/nico- ... tion=2B/SS
dt

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