Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

ice99
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by ice99 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:08 pm

harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:55 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:50 pm
harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:40 pm

Will the Pirates trade Bryan Reynolds and take on salary?

Reynolds is scheduled to earn $6.75 million next year while J.P. Crawford earns $11 million and Diego Castillo gets an arbitration raise off his 2022 salary of $2.15 million.

Let's return to reality.
Oh I'm sorry I thought these trade values were reality???? You certainly wouldn't quote and post something that you didn't have full confidence in would you??? Or are we now allowed to sanity check things like trade values and projections when they screw up our narrative? lol
A listed trade value is one variable to be considered in context with other factors, including each team's needs and budget.

It's better ignore the Baseball Trade Values site than to misuse its information.
Agreed. Why are the Pirates going to want to get relievers when they aren't planning to compete next year?

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bpj
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by bpj » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:15 pm

A Reynolds trade probably starts with Emerson Hancock at this point.

Which is why adding the SP in free agency is another part of the plan. More likely to be able to add arms in free agency than bats, so I would create a surplus, then trade from it to fill a couple of the lineup holes.

GL_Storm
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by GL_Storm » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:15 pm

harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:37 pm
bpj post wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:20 pm
Flexen at this point has to see the writing on the wall.

As Donn pointed out, there's a decent chance he opts out and tests free agency rather than be an $8M bullpen piece.

That solves one problem for us. Now just dump Marco on some team that needs an innings eater.
Several sources indicate that Chris Flexen remains under team control through the 2026 season:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... ch01.shtml

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/seattle-mar ... xen-21243/

https://clutchpoints.com/mariners-news- ... able-feat/
Yes, this is correct. He can't opt out and just become a free agent. The confusion I think comes from the contract language describing his guarantee for next year as a player option. I don't know why it says that since if he didn't opt for it, he wouldn't even be at Arb 1. I assume it has something to do with the way they signed him out of Korea.

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bpj
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by bpj » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:19 pm

I figured he's under contract also, but Donn posted some things that made it sound like he can opt out.

To me, it's irrelevant, find the best deal you can for Flexen, Marco, and Winker and pull the trigger. Who cares what you get or have to cover, the payroll sits at $87.5M without them. Just get them out of here, we need their spots to improve the team.

ice99
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by ice99 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:09 am

bpj wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:39 pm
ice99 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:28 pm
Captain 97 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:06 pm


I am on the fence with Abreau. His stats are really weird this year. His power is gone but he is hitting .308. It's like he turned into Ichiro. I really wouldn't want him manning a power position like DH or 1B if he can't hit 30+ bombs anymore. The bonus is he can be had without a long term contract I think 2 years 40 Million with a third year option would be about market value on him.
Too much money to be tied up on 36 yo Abreu, imo.
They could add Abreu for the dollars they save from getting rid of Marco and Flexen.

They've been penny pinching for years now.

On a one or two year contract, it shouldn't be a hindrance to any other signings.

They could fix this lineup pretty cheap even adding two mid-size contracts, doesn't need to be Abreu.

Adding Josh Bell, Bryan Reynolds, Carlos Rodon and Christian Walker would hardly raise our current payroll.

Walker and Bell are basically like adding another 2 Ty Frances to the lineup.

Reynolds LF
Julio CF
Suarez 3B
Bell 1B
France 2B
Walker DH
Raleigh/Murphy C
Kelenic/Lewis RF
Crawford SS

UTIL
Moore/Haggerty/Lewis

Castillo
Rodon
Gilbert
Ray
Kirby

That's a division contender, especially with our bullpen. There aren't many true impact bats available outside of Judge, but the above lineup is incredibly deep with plenty of everything.
I don't see them signing Abreu. You left him off your roster too, so that's a good sign.

I forgot, the batting order this year that had the most runs produced given the stats against RHP, had a level of an average of approx 4.495 runs per game.

JP
JRod
Haniger
France
Geno
Santana
Frazier
Cal
Winker

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Donn Beach
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by Donn Beach » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:30 am

desbcoach wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:36 pm
harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:22 pm
bpj wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:02 pm


Most teams won't get their trade values from an internet simulator to determine the players worth.

That's not how business works.
Indeed.

Many teams might give Marco Gonzales and Chris Flexen a combined negative value of $20 million.

Or not.

If Gonzales and Flexen aren't worth their contracts to the Mariners, why would the pitchers be worth their contracts to other teams?
Both those pitcher have value to a lot of mediocre teams. Texas Rangers or even the Angels would be happy with a pitcher of either ilk
Yeah if the argument is they don't have trade value id disagree. For teams that don't have the mariners depth they both would have value

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Donn Beach
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by Donn Beach » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:36 am

GL_Storm wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:15 pm
harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:37 pm
bpj post wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:20 pm
Flexen at this point has to see the writing on the wall.

As Donn pointed out, there's a decent chance he opts out and tests free agency rather than be an $8M bullpen piece.

That solves one problem for us. Now just dump Marco on some team that needs an innings eater.
Several sources indicate that Chris Flexen remains under team control through the 2026 season:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... ch01.shtml

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/seattle-mar ... xen-21243/

https://clutchpoints.com/mariners-news- ... able-feat/
Yes, this is correct. He can't opt out and just become a free agent. The confusion I think comes from the contract language describing his guarantee for next year as a player option. I don't know why it says that since if he didn't opt for it, he wouldn't even be at Arb 1. I assume it has something to do with the way they signed him out of Korea.
It converted to a player option
. 2023 Club Option converts to an $8M player option with
150 IP in 2022 or 300 IP across 2021-2022
or
35 games finished in 2022 or 65 in 2021-22
Trade Assignment Bonus: $250,000
Incentives: $1M

GL_Storm
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by GL_Storm » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:49 am

Donn Beach wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:36 am
GL_Storm wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:15 pm
harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:37 pm

Several sources indicate that Chris Flexen remains under team control through the 2026 season:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... ch01.shtml

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/seattle-mar ... xen-21243/

https://clutchpoints.com/mariners-news- ... able-feat/
Yes, this is correct. He can't opt out and just become a free agent. The confusion I think comes from the contract language describing his guarantee for next year as a player option. I don't know why it says that since if he didn't opt for it, he wouldn't even be at Arb 1. I assume it has something to do with the way they signed him out of Korea.
It converted to a player option
. 2023 Club Option converts to an $8M player option with
150 IP in 2022 or 300 IP across 2021-2022
or
35 games finished in 2022 or 65 in 2021-22
Trade Assignment Bonus: $250,000
Incentives: $1M
Right, but I don't think that means he can opt out and become a free agent.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by Donn Beach » Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:46 am

. There is an $8 million reason for Chris Flexen to pick up that 2023 player option with the Mariners at the end of the season. If he does, however, it’s important to note that he will be under team control until the end of the 2027 MLB season when he’s already 33 years old. Picking up the option would mean he’ll enter three arbitration-eligible years from 2024 to 2026.

So what happens if he doesn't pick it up?

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D-train
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Re: Time to KIRB(Y) our lousy offense G.T 9/22/22

Post by D-train » Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:24 am

harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:55 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:50 pm
harmony wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:40 pm

Will the Pirates trade Bryan Reynolds and take on salary?

Reynolds is scheduled to earn $6.75 million next year while J.P. Crawford earns $11 million and Diego Castillo gets an arbitration raise off his 2022 salary of $2.15 million.

Let's return to reality.
Oh I'm sorry I thought these trade values were reality???? You certainly wouldn't quote and post something that you didn't have full confidence in would you??? Or are we now allowed to sanity check things like trade values and projections when they screw up our narrative? lol
A listed trade value is one variable to be considered in context with other factors, including each team's needs and budget.

It's better ignore the Baseball Trade Values site than to misuse its information.
Yes, you should have ignored their combined negative trade value instead of misuse that information in an unprovoked effort to discredit and diminish another poster.

Its ironic that someone that thinks that projections are Gospel never to be questioned and are MORE valuable that recent actual production suggests that other posters aren't living in reality and feels the need to educate people who are a part of multi billion dollar businesses how business works, isn't it.
harmony wrote:

Let's return to reality.
harmony wrote:

That's not how business works.
harmony wrote:

What are the expected returns on trades of Marco Gonzales and Chris Flexen, who have a combined trade value of a negative $11.6 million at Baseball Trade Values ?

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/teams/478/
dt

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