The stupidity of the Trade Value site

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D-train
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by D-train » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:49 am

ice99 wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:46 am
Bil522 wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:23 pm
The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Screenshot_20221108_091855_Chrome.jpg
Which values did you have an issue with?
Maybe Kirk is too high? But he put up 3.9 WAR and had four years of control so that doesn't seem high.
dt

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bpj
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by bpj » Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:20 am

These simulations just meant to show Crawford compared to how these free agent SS contracts look after a year.
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D-train
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by D-train » Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:01 pm

I don't have time now but would be interested to see Schwarber, Sterling Marte and Freeman and any other multi year position player FA signees.
dt

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Bil522
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by Bil522 » Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:05 pm

ice99 wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:46 am
Bil522 wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:23 pm
The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Screenshot_20221108_091855_Chrome.jpg
Which values did you have an issue with?
All of them. People use them like the draft pick chart in the NFL except it based solely on the contract. In baseball, a contract is a sunk cost....it is a value that a team is willing to pay someone to play baseball for them. Once it is signed, it has no value indicating the value of the player. As an example, Cincinnati believed that Suarez was not playing up to the level they were paying him for, so they took less in return to dump him. The M's liked what he brought to the team so they took him from the Reds. Suarez's contract value did not go up or down, so there was no difference in his contract value but there was a big difference in his actual trade value.

ice99
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by ice99 » Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:10 pm

Bil522 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:05 pm
ice99 wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:46 am
Bil522 wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:23 pm
The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Screenshot_20221108_091855_Chrome.jpg
Which values did you have an issue with?
All of them. People use them like the draft pick chart in the NFL except it based solely on the contract. In baseball, a contract is a sunk cost....it is a value that a team is willing to pay someone to play baseball for them. Once it is signed, it has no value indicating the value of the player. As an example, Cincinnati believed that Suarez was not playing up to the level they were paying him for, so they took less in return to dump him. The M's liked what he brought to the team so they took him from the Reds. Suarez's contract value did not go up or down, so there was no difference in his contract value but there was a big difference in his actual trade value.
Nonsense, it's not a draft pick chart. In the NFL they trade players due to players having more or less value than their contract, plus draft picks, if the teams have enough cap space

Michael K.
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by Michael K. » Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:15 pm

Vogelbomb wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:44 pm
I understand taking into account contract length and dollar amount. I don't think there's enough weight being put on performance (past or present) or on how little some teams may worry about AAV on a players' current deal. $10m can mean two different things to two different clubs.

So sure, this tool is one to use broadly across the landscape, may not apply to each club universally. I think that's fair. But it's also fair that I think the tool can take a walk. I don't pay it one sec of time
Agreed. I doubt too many teams or their fan base bitches about a trade if the next year they go to the World Series. Those grades are going very long term, which also isn't exactly accurate. Other moves are made after as well, nothing happens in a vacuum.

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Bil522
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by Bil522 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:41 pm

ice99 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:10 pm
Bil522 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:05 pm
ice99 wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:46 am


Which values did you have an issue with?
All of them. People use them like the draft pick chart in the NFL except it based solely on the contract. In baseball, a contract is a sunk cost....it is a value that a team is willing to pay someone to play baseball for them. Once it is signed, it has no value indicating the value of the player. As an example, Cincinnati believed that Suarez was not playing up to the level they were paying him for, so they took less in return to dump him. The M's liked what he brought to the team so they took him from the Reds. Suarez's contract value did not go up or down, so there was no difference in his contract value but there was a big difference in his actual trade value.
Nonsense, it's not a draft pick chart. In the NFL they trade players due to players having more or less value than their contract, plus draft picks, if the teams have enough cap space
Re-read the second sentence. I said people use them like the NFL draft pick chart.

ice99
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by ice99 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:20 pm

Bil522 wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:41 pm
ice99 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:10 pm
Bil522 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:05 pm


All of them. People use them like the draft pick chart in the NFL except it based solely on the contract. In baseball, a contract is a sunk cost....it is a value that a team is willing to pay someone to play baseball for them. Once it is signed, it has no value indicating the value of the player. As an example, Cincinnati believed that Suarez was not playing up to the level they were paying him for, so they took less in return to dump him. The M's liked what he brought to the team so they took him from the Reds. Suarez's contract value did not go up or down, so there was no difference in his contract value but there was a big difference in his actual trade value.
Nonsense, it's not a draft pick chart. In the NFL they trade players due to players having more or less value than their contract, plus draft picks, if the teams have enough cap space
Re-read the second sentence. I said people use them like the NFL draft pick chart.
It's not a draft pick chart. It's real money, they have guaranteed contracts in the mlb. While many have guaranteed portions in the NFL, it's not 100%, sans club options. These are obligations that the team receiving the trade needs to pay.

Captain 97
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by Captain 97 » Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:37 pm

ice99 wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:20 pm
Bil522 wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:41 pm
ice99 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:10 pm


Nonsense, it's not a draft pick chart. In the NFL they trade players due to players having more or less value than their contract, plus draft picks, if the teams have enough cap space
Re-read the second sentence. I said people use them like the NFL draft pick chart.
It's not a draft pick chart. It's real money, they have guaranteed contracts in the mlb. While many have guaranteed portions in the NFL, it's not 100%, sans club options. These are obligations that the team receiving the trade needs to pay.
Yes but "fans" treat it like its a draft pick chart to try and claim a proposed trade is a reasonable trade that teams might consider. Its worthless as a tool for doing that.

For example The Rangers just signed Semien to a long term deal and he just put up a 5.9 WAR so I would assume the Rangers are happy with that trade and aren't looking to move him. But the Trade value site gives him a -26.1 Value. Using the values on this site you could construct a trade of
Mariners get Marcus Semien -26.1 and Adolis Garcia 23.9 And the Rangers get Abraham Toro value 0 and the trade values site would have the Rangers listed as the winner of the trade. Thats a trade where one team gives up guys that produced 9.4 WAR last year for a guy who had a -.8 WAR last year and the trade values site says they won the trade. Its absolutely worthless as a tool for evaluating trades.

Captain 97
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Re: The stupidity of the Trade Value site

Post by Captain 97 » Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:45 pm

How about Murfee and Deloche for Mike Trout?
Dylan Moore and Taylor Trammell for Paul Goldschmidt
Trade Values site says the Angels and Cards win those trades. It's just utter garbage.
Last edited by Captain 97 on Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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