Going to break my own thread starting rules here

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D-train
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Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by D-train » Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:41 am

Sorry but while only rumors this is hugely significant imo. The difference between acquiring another legit COF like Teo vs. going with the unproven internal riff raff is huge in the direction and commitment of this team. Pharmabro, I grant you a new thread of your own if you have one in mind. :)
By Ryan Divish
Seattle Times staff reporter
This much is certain for the Mariners’ outfield as the team progresses through the offseason and toward spring training for the much-anticipated 2023 season: Julio Rodriguez is the everyday starting center fielder and Teoscar Hernandez will be in the lineup on a near daily basis, playing one of the corner spots in the outfield. But which one? That’s yet to be determined.

And the other outfield spot(s) on the roster and in the lineup, well, that’s yet to be determined, but it could be some combination of Jarred Kelenic, Jesse Winker, Taylor Trammell, Sam Haggerty or a player to be acquired or re-signed later in the offseason.

A day after trading former American League rookie of the year Kyle Lewis to the Arizona Diamondbacks in what was essentially a change-of-scenery/fresh-start trade meant to benefit both parties, Jerry Dipoto, the Mariners president of baseball operations, reiterated the organization’s philosophy when it came to the outfield in a video news conference. They were very similar to the comments he made at the recent MLB general manager meetings in Las Vegas, where he was finishing up the trade that brought Hernandez from the Blue Jays to the Mariners.

“We’ve talked about it fairly openly that we would like to add someone else to that mix to create more of a flow,” Dipoto said. “It’s some combination of those players. We feel really strongly about the young group, somebody in that JK, Taylor Trammell and there’s Cade Marlow, somebody in that group is going to break through, they’re just too talented not to.”

That breakthrough might not necessarily come as an everyday player but as a platoon player or even fourth outfielder.

“We do want to make sure that we provide opportunity, so that our young players continue to start driving. That’s how we built this team is by giving the young players opportunity, and we’re going to keep doing that.”

Fans would prefer to focus on the potential outfielder that Dipoto might acquire instead of the player returning for obvious reasons. Winker’s struggles at the plate and his poor defense in the field don’t offer much inspiration. Dipoto said in Vegas that he would prefer that Winker sees more of his at-bats in the designated hitter role.

Kelenic and Trammell have only shown glimpses of being consistent players at the MLB level.

The Mariners have continued to have talks with Mitch Haniger, through his agent Adam Karon, in hopes of possibly bringing him back to play right field.

“I’ve been in contact with him throughout as has Jerry,” general manager Justin Hollander said. “We met with him at the GM meetings. Certainly, the door is still open for Mitch to be back. And we’re still having those conversations.”

But the Mariners will have some competition for Haniger, who has drawn interest from the Rangers, Dodgers, Giants and Angels, per reports.

The outfield free-agent market is top heavy with megastar Aaron Judge headlining the class. Obviously, Judge would fit well in the Mariners outfield, really any outfield. But the early rumors and conversations have the Giants, Dodgers or Yankees willing to pay heavily — $300 million — for Judge.

In terms of FanGraphs’ Wins Above Replacement, Mets outfielder Brandon Nimmo was the next highest producer at 5.4 WAR for the Mets. While he can play all three outfield positions at an average to above-average level, Nimmo played predominantly center field this season. He also isn’t a traditional power presence. He hit 16 homers this season, which was one short of his career high of 17 that he set in 2018. He also has a qualifying offer attached, meaning the Mariners would have to give up their third highest draft pick if they signed him.

Another fit might be Andrew Benintendi, who finished his season with a .304/.373/.399 slash line between the Royals and Yankees. Benintendi only hit 5 homers this season after hitting 17 for the Royals in 2021. But the Mariners crave bat-to-ball skills, and Benintendi is also capable of playing the two corner outfield spots. He was a finalist for the AL Gold Glove this past season. He’s also a left-handed bat, which the Mariners could use to balance out the lineup.

There is a new addition to the free-agent class that comes with National League MVP on his résumé.

As expected, Cody Bellinger was non-tendered by the Dodgers, who opted to let him become a free agent instead of paying more around $18 million in salary arbitration for the 2023 season to their starting center fielder.

Bellinger was the 2019 NL MVP after a season in which he produced a .305/.406/.629 slash line with 47 homers.

After slumping early in 2020, Bellinger seemed to be pulling himself together in the postseason. But then dislocated his right shoulder while celebrating a homer in NLCS. It would later require surgery. The 2021 season was even worse. Plagued by lingering effects from the shoulder along with leg and rib cage injuries, he posted an abysmal .165/.240/.302 slash line with 10 homers and 36 RBI. A bounce-back season in 2022 never materialized. He had a .210/.265/.389 slash line with 27 doubles, three triples, 19 homers, 68 RBI, 38 walks and 150 strikeouts. But was still one of the better defensive center fielders in baseball.

His agent, Scott Boras, said the 27-year-old outfielder is looking for a one-year contract to re-establish his market value instead of a multiyear deal. The upside potential could be huge with Bellinger. The old baseball saying is “there is no such thing as a bad one-year contract.” But does Dipoto want to do that with Hernandez also a free agent after this season? And is Seattle a place where Bellinger can resuscitate his career?

The Mariners could take a chance on local product Michael Conforto, who missed all of last season after shoulder surgery. The Redmond High and Oregon State standout is a left-handed hitter with the ability to play the corner spots. He likely wouldn’t command as high of an asking price.

Some baseball insiders believe that if the Mariners don’t sign Haniger to a contract they will instead go the trade route, which Dipoto has often found more productive and open to possibilities. He could move packages of players, including Winker and right-hander Chris Flexen along with prospects to acquire an outfielder. Seattle shopped Kelenic extensively at the deadline as well.

His staff has long coveted Pirates All-Star outfielder Bryan Reynolds. While Reynolds has played mostly center field, multiple scouts believe a move to a corner outfield position is coming and might help him stay healthier.

The Cubs could move switch-hitting left fielder Ian Happ, who drew interest at the trade deadline, during his All-Star 2023 season.

More trade opportunities could arise as teams sign free agents.

“We’ve had a number of trade conversations with other clubs.” Dipoto said. “I don’t sense that anything is particularly close. We have gotten to the point with a number of teams where we’ve exchanged names that might be interesting to create a match. We haven’t had a direct hit in that regard yet. We’re gonna be patient, there’s really no need to rush. There’s no game tomorrow.”

And yet, Dipoto did acquire Haniger in a five-player trade the night before Thanksgiving.

“We do have more than one target,” he said. “There are a handful of players that fit us that we feel good about especially as it pertains to outfielders. We feel like there’s still a market that is more robust. And if we’re just patient, we’re going to find the player that suits our roster the best.”
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rockycola
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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by rockycola » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:32 pm

Most all of the article is a rehash of what has been discussed, read and said.

However, one sentence stands out which makes the whole post significant and that is "shopped Kelenic extensively".

I don't think anyone here believed Kelenic could perform as shitty as he has when he came here in the Cano trade.. Could he breakout, even win "comeback" player of the year? Perhaps, but doubtful. Youth is on his side but the M's can't afford to invest another season of hope for Jared.

Reading between the lines, does anybody else want to take a chance? Was there any interest? Is Dipoto asking too much?

Seems like the writing is on the wall but without a COF addition, coupled with the subtraction of Haniger probably Winker, what will happen?

We gotta get a Reynolds, Nimmo, Bellinger. I don't trust Trammel. Haggerty is a wonderful ut and nice sparkplug but can't wrap my head around him as the full-time starter in LF.

It'll be interesting to see what direction this takes over the next few months.
Rocky Colavito is a Hall of Famer in my book!

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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by D-train » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:40 pm

rockycola wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:32 pm
Most all of the article is a rehash of what has been discussed, read and said.

However, one sentence stands out which makes the whole post significant and that is "shopped Kelenic extensively".

I don't think anyone here believed Kelenic could perform as shitty as he has when he came here in the Cano trade.. Could he breakout, even win "comeback" player of the year? Perhaps, but doubtful. Youth is on his side but the M's can't afford to invest another season of hope for Jared.

Reading between the lines, does anybody else want to take a chance? Was there any interest? Is Dipoto asking too much?

Seems like the writing is on the wall but without a COF addition, coupled with the subtraction of Haniger probably Winker, what will happen?

We gotta get a Reynolds, Nimmo, Bellinger. I don't trust Trammel. Haggerty is a wonderful ut and nice sparkplug but can't wrap my head around him as the full-time starter in LF.

It'll be interesting to see what direction this takes over the next few months.
Yes, that was a bombshell first and VERY encouraging...
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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by D-train » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:42 pm

rockycola wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:32 pm
Most all of the article is a rehash of what has been discussed, read and said.

However, one sentence stands out which makes the whole post significant and that is "shopped Kelenic extensively".

I don't think anyone here believed Kelenic could perform as shitty as he has when he came here in the Cano trade.. Could he breakout, even win "comeback" player of the year? Perhaps, but doubtful. Youth is on his side but the M's can't afford to invest another season of hope for Jared.

Reading between the lines, does anybody else want to take a chance? Was there any interest? Is Dipoto asking too much?

Seems like the writing is on the wall but without a COF addition, coupled with the subtraction of Haniger probably Winker, what will happen?

We gotta get a Reynolds, Nimmo, Bellinger. I don't trust Trammel. Haggerty is a wonderful ut and nice sparkplug but can't wrap my head around him as the full-time starter in LF.

It'll be interesting to see what direction this takes over the next few months.
Spot on Phil and love your new Mr. Mariner avatar.....I went to his mlb debut accidentally and saw his 3 run HR and remember it vividly..
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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by Captain 97 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:06 pm

D-train wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:42 pm
rockycola wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:32 pm
Most all of the article is a rehash of what has been discussed, read and said.

However, one sentence stands out which makes the whole post significant and that is "shopped Kelenic extensively".

I don't think anyone here believed Kelenic could perform as shitty as he has when he came here in the Cano trade.. Could he breakout, even win "comeback" player of the year? Perhaps, but doubtful. Youth is on his side but the M's can't afford to invest another season of hope for Jared.

Reading between the lines, does anybody else want to take a chance? Was there any interest? Is Dipoto asking too much?

Seems like the writing is on the wall but without a COF addition, coupled with the subtraction of Haniger probably Winker, what will happen?

We gotta get a Reynolds, Nimmo, Bellinger. I don't trust Trammel. Haggerty is a wonderful ut and nice sparkplug but can't wrap my head around him as the full-time starter in LF.

It'll be interesting to see what direction this takes over the next few months.
Spot on Phil and love your new Mr. Mariner avatar.....I went to his mlb debut accidentally and saw his 3 run HR and remember it vividly..
I actually have that card.

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D-train
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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by D-train » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:21 pm

I asked Divish about it and he provided a link to this piece but this just seems like he was speculating...
Giving up talent to get talent back
Jarred Kelenic, OF
Emerson Hancock, RHP
Noelvi Marte, SS
Matt Brash, RHP
In most trade scenarios, these four names are mentioned the most. Class AAA Tacoma has had a myriad scouts following it over the last two weeks. Per one scout, the Mariners have made it clear they are willing to trade Kelenic to fill their immediate needs.

The idea of trading Kelenic didn’t exist in spring training of 2021 or really even after he struggled in his initial call-up last season. But his continued struggles to refind his bat-to-ball skills, his failure or unwillingness to improve his two-strike approach and inability to hit breaking balls, even in the minor leagues, are glaring enough that the Mariners would consider it.

While he isn’t as coveted as he once was, he’s still only 23 and has all the tools to be a quality MLB player. Teams recognize that value.
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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by GL_Storm » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:33 pm

Beyond Judge and Nimmo, the only impact corner outfielder available on the free agent market is Mitch Haniger. You can plug the hole with Benintendi, but I think paying market value for him is dumb, though maybe the projections I've seen for his market are inflated. To me, Benintendi is more of a second division player, though maybe the type that a team trades for at the deadline to plug a hole. But the lack of power makes it hard to pencil him in on a contending team on opening day, at least as a starter.

Ian Happ in a trade could work and I think that's one where JK would make sense as one of the return pieces. I don't know what else the Cubs would want back, but my guess is it would be one of the young pitching prospects, maybe Dollard or Woo.

There was an article a few weeks ago about Alex Verdugo in Boston. He's not been terrible, but hasn't developed the way they want. That could be another JK destination and might make some sense if the Red Sox go into a rebuild.

The article mentioned Conforto but my guess is he'll sign closer to spring training. His agent will probably try to set up a workout for him and get a market going that way.

Austin Meadows is probably available in trade. That's a real gamble, but the price would be low.

I think part of the problem for us here on the discussion board is that there haven't been a lot of rumors so far about corner outfielders, so we're left to our own speculations.

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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by D-train » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:42 pm

Curious what measures you are using that tell you Mitch is an impact player and AB isn't? Home runs alone???
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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by D-train » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:44 pm

Would you also consider Pete Incaviglia an impact bat and Wade Boggs not because PI hit twice as many HRs?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... pe01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... wa01.shtml
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Re: Going to break my own thread starting rules here

Post by ddraig » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:48 pm

I'm not convinced that JK will ever become the player we all expected him to be. Perhaps Trammel will eventually become more valuable to the M's. But can they wait a year for either to mature?

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