M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

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D-train
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:51 pm

harmony wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:31 pm
At The Athletic on November 8 beat reporter Corey Brock (and his Blue Jay counterpart) proposed a trade of Chris Flexen and Penn Murfee to Toronto for Santiago Espinal and Alejandro Melean. Eight days later the Mariners traded Erik Swanson and Adam Macko to the Blue Jays for Teoscar Hernandez.

Today at The Athletic Brock and other writer proposed a trade of Chris Flexen to Milwaukee for Kolten Wong. Later in the day the Mariners traded Jesse Winker and Abraham Toro to the Brewers for Kolten Wong.

Brock has gotten the trade partners right but some traded players wrong.
Other than Swanson I'm glad he was wrong with all the players
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by Sexymarinersfan » Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:06 pm

D-train wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:46 pm
AZOldDawg wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:56 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:59 pm
Also closes the book on the FA SS pipe dream. Can't believe people fell for that nonsense. Sign Nimmo or trade for Reynolds and we have a solid off season.
In full agreement brother but I would add Chaffin

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/12/13 ... -cardinals
Signing Gott shows how much Jerry is willing to spend on relievers

Not necessarily. Munoz just got paid. And we gave that horrid contract to Juan Nicasio, 2-year $17M.

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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:11 pm

Our WAR projection actually went down a bit. Which is crazy. Wong projected at 2.5 WAR

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.a ... &teamid=11
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:14 pm

Sexymarinersfan wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:06 pm
D-train wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:46 pm
AZOldDawg wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:56 pm


In full agreement brother but I would add Chaffin

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/12/13 ... -cardinals
Signing Gott shows how much Jerry is willing to spend on relievers

Not necessarily. Munoz just got paid. And we gave that horrid contract to Juan Nicasio, 2-year $17M.
Munoz didn't get jack. Yeah maybe Jerry was scarred by the horrid Nicasio deal. lol That was the the last one he has done. Nicasio, Cishek, Scrabble God terrible.
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:28 pm

Captain 97 wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:10 am
Big_Maple wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:59 pm
DT said it best - this is a basic addition by subtraction.

Look, I know you all are way savvier than I am with stats, but here’s a really basic measure of how well this trade impacts us:

Winker had a WAR of 0.4 and Toro’s was -0.7 so they had a combined WAR of -0.3

Wong’s WAR last season was 2.5

So we just added 2.8 WAR, and we got $1.75M in pocket money.

I know that’s an oversimplification, but there you have it….addition by subtraction!
Sure we won the trade but the question is did it move the needle enough. looking at 2nd base specifically we let Frazier walk who had a 0.9 WAR so we really added about 1.6 WAR at 2B. We finished 16 games out and we only have a few spaces where we can add significant WAR. We now have one less open spot where we can plug in an impact bat. We need to be adding more than a couple WAR here and there and this move narrows our window of prospective players who can actually move the needle.
There weren't any impact 2Bs available so need to make the big moves in LF. Nimmo with 5.0 vs. 1.6 for our LFers. And DH where we put up -0.1 WAR vs. 7.3 for the Astros.
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:30 pm

rockycola wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:29 am
Seattle or Bust wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:49 pm
Image

I love Twitter.
So what we're saying is the possibility of the right side of the infield would be White and Wong?
I will be able to tell the difference between White and Wong. lol
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:41 pm

Sexymarinersfan wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:58 am
Look at the bigger picture. What is the Mariners need? A big bat. What position did they have open prior to the deal? 2B. So they were stuck having to overpay for a middle infield impact bat, one of four total.

Post deal? Dipoto moved Winkers production to 2B. Mariners biggest need is still an impact bat, but what position do they need it at? DH/OF/1B - where there's 10 times the number of available bats than infield.

It's a really smart way of shifting the playing field.

By moving Winker we can bring in a Josh Bell to be DH or sign Nimmo to play LF. We could even bring back Haniger to play OF and DH. There are many ways to improve on last years lineup.
You know how I feel about Haniger but I guess if they bring him back he either sucks or gets injured and I am right or he produces and I am wrong but happy. Just too much risk imo given all the other options. He should be plan F imo.

A Nimmo
B Reynolds
D Yoshida
E Conforto
F Mitch
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:58 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:00 am
Based on what was given up for Toro and Winker, this deal is more like a white flag, Jerry admitting he fucked up and trying to recoup something. I mean, if this deal was made a year ago people wohld be saying Jerry got molested.
Graveman put 0.7 WAR last season.
Justin Dunn -0.1 WAR
Fraley 0.6
Williamson 4.11 ERA in minors
Phillips 4.93 ERA in AA

Whole lot of nothing for those two guys especially since Geno put up 3.9 WAR.
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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:12 pm

Wasn't Suarez a throw-in? Jerry was targeting Winker in that deal, just like he was targeting Toro in the other one.

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Re: M's get Wong for Winker and Toro!!

Post by D-train » Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:22 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:12 pm
Wasn't Suarez a throw-in? Jerry was targeting Winker in that deal, just like he was targeting Toro in the other one.
Well we need a 3B and he was a starting 3B and he immediately became our starting 3B. Targeting Toro turned out be a colossal F up but he had good minor leagues stats just like France and Mitch...
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