Fixing the M's offense?

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Donn Beach
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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Donn Beach » Tue May 16, 2023 5:49 pm

D-train wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 5:18 pm
Seattle or Bust wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 5:14 pm
Imagine being stoked about a .754 OPS and 111 WRC+ from a position that is literally designed to have nothing but a great hitter in it.
Y
To get us up to a .450 OPS! These Jerry groupies are something else.
It might be designed for a great hitter but that doesn't mean you're getting one, certainly not with 30 teams now competing for one. What is the average dh ops and WRC+? If there's any indication the current roster could hit those sorts of numbers there wouldn't be much incentive to make changes.

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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Seattle or Bust » Tue May 16, 2023 6:07 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 5:49 pm
D-train wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 5:18 pm
Seattle or Bust wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 5:14 pm
Imagine being stoked about a .754 OPS and 111 WRC+ from a position that is literally designed to have nothing but a great hitter in it.
Y
To get us up to a .450 OPS! These Jerry groupies are something else.
It might be designed for a great hitter but that doesn't mean you're getting one, certainly not with 30 teams now competing for one. What is the average dh ops and WRC+? If there's any indication the current roster could hit those sorts of numbers there wouldn't be much incentive to make changes.
Sure, but you can't allocate resources in a way that puts you dead last a particular position.

The average WRC+ for offensive output at DH puts 17 teams at a 100 WRC+ or above, so just above average offensive output for the position. However, many teams like Tampa (157 DH WRC+), Boston (120), LAA (153), LAD (107), SF (119), AZ (121)... rank in the top-10 in WRC+ from the DH and top 10 in total OPS. Only ATL and TEX have below-avg production from the DH and are top offenses in baseball. But TEX having a WRC+ of 93 and ATL 89 at DH is a far, far, far cry from the M's 56 WRC+ from the position.

The point is, build a balanced, complete roster that is free of holes. Don't dumpster dive and hope rotating shitters through the DH is going to help. It's clearly dragging this offense down which means their strategy of allocating limited resources to the position hasn't worked.

Spending money on a thumper at DH seems to help a lot more than it hurts.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Donn Beach » Tue May 16, 2023 6:20 pm

I don't think anyone is happy with the production at dh from Dipoto on down. But I don't think that means you need to sign a thumper to be your dh. What it means is you need a better roster of hitters to allocate dh at bats to. How many teams these days have a dh only player they give those at bats? I get the feeling that approach has declined across baseball

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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Seattle or Bust » Tue May 16, 2023 6:31 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:20 pm
I don't think anyone is happy with the production at dh from Dipoto on down. But I don't think that means you need to sign a thumper to be your dh. What it means is you need a better roster of hitters to allocate dh at bats to. How many teams these days have a dh only player they give those at bats? I get the feeling that approach has declined across baseball
I agree it has declined. But Goldschmidt also wouldn't just DH. He'd rotate to 1B as well. However, most teams are still rolling w. a guy who is getting the majority of the AB's at the position.

What you're suggesting is that the M's sign better players to rotate through DH. Great... do so.

You know what that costs? Money.

Many M's fans wanted the M's to sign Yoshida and/or Nimmo. Both players would have allowed for a stellar OF rotation at DH, instead... we've got what we got cause they went cheap.

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D-train
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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by D-train » Tue May 16, 2023 6:33 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:20 pm
I don't think anyone is happy with the production at dh from Dipoto on down. But I don't think that means you need to sign a thumper to be your dh. What it means is you need a better roster of hitters to allocate dh at bats to. How many teams these days have a dh only player they give those at bats? I get the feeling that approach has declined across baseball
But it is more difficult to do that than just getting a guy that can hit and not have to worry about him being able to play good D at 5 positions. That is Bpj's analogy. Its a free space in Bingo. Even the 83 yo old ladies with a Pall Mall hanging out of their mouth at the St. Thomas Moore in bingo hall in 1979 knew to cover the free space at the start of every game.
dt

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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Seattle or Bust » Tue May 16, 2023 6:38 pm

I'm actually very surprised the M's weren't in on Brent Rooker when he was placed on waivers by the Royals.

He hit for a .289/.395/.649/1.044 clip w. 28 homers last year in AAA.

Seems like the kind of guy they normally grab.

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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Donn Beach » Tue May 16, 2023 6:43 pm

D-train wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:33 pm
Donn Beach wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:20 pm
I don't think anyone is happy with the production at dh from Dipoto on down. But I don't think that means you need to sign a thumper to be your dh. What it means is you need a better roster of hitters to allocate dh at bats to. How many teams these days have a dh only player they give those at bats? I get the feeling that approach has declined across baseball
But it is more difficult to do that than just getting a guy that can hit and not have to worry about him being able to play good D at 5 positions. That is Bpj's analogy. Its a free space in Bingo. Even the 83 yo old ladies with a Pall Mall hanging out of their mouth at the St. Thomas Moore in bingo hall in 1979 knew to cover the free space at the start of every game.
I don't know if that's true. Who are all these guys that can just plain hit, that don't play a position? Its not GG but I do think the model these days are guys that can give value in different ways, not just dhing. But I haven't really studied it

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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Big_Maple » Tue May 16, 2023 6:49 pm

Seattle or Bust wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:38 pm
I'm actually very surprised the M's weren't in on Brent Rooker when he was placed on waivers by the Royals.

He hit for a .289/.395/.649/1.044 clip w. 28 homers last year in AAA.

Seems like the kind of guy they normally grab.
Yeah. Instead, he's totally raking it with the A's. 11 bombs so far. He's got a .298/.408/.628 slash line playing for a team that is MLB in name only.

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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Seattle or Bust » Tue May 16, 2023 6:50 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:43 pm
D-train wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:33 pm
Donn Beach wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 6:20 pm
I don't think anyone is happy with the production at dh from Dipoto on down. But I don't think that means you need to sign a thumper to be your dh. What it means is you need a better roster of hitters to allocate dh at bats to. How many teams these days have a dh only player they give those at bats? I get the feeling that approach has declined across baseball
But it is more difficult to do that than just getting a guy that can hit and not have to worry about him being able to play good D at 5 positions. That is Bpj's analogy. Its a free space in Bingo. Even the 83 yo old ladies with a Pall Mall hanging out of their mouth at the St. Thomas Moore in bingo hall in 1979 knew to cover the free space at the start of every game.
I don't know if that's true. Who are all these guys that can just plain hit, that don't play a position? Its not GG but I do think the model these days are guys that can give value in different ways, not just dhing. But I haven't really studied it
They play a position... just seldomly and not well (cept Ohtani).

Ohtani, Pederson, Schwarber, Menenses, Buxton, Turner, McCutchen, Alvarez, Vogelbach, Soler, Martinez... come to mind.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Fixing the M's offense?

Post by Donn Beach » Tue May 16, 2023 6:52 pm

I had thought McCutchen might have been interesting signing. Player like that does give you added depth on your roster, both at dh and the field

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