Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Donn Beach » Fri May 26, 2023 5:15 pm

Where the fuck do I defend them? They have great pitching and lousy hitting. I know that, I just don't feel like complaining about it endlessly.

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by D-train » Fri May 26, 2023 5:16 pm

When you have a manager setting the tone and expectation that it is "Tough to sweep a series" the morning berfore you play the third game of a series after winning the first two and then after the gaming bragging that he was right because they lost a winnable game we should not be surprised by the attitude and results of the team.
dt

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Seattle or Bust » Fri May 26, 2023 5:19 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 5:15 pm
Where the fuck do I defend them? They have great pitching and lousy hitting. I know that, I just don't feel like complaining about it endlessly.
You know it, yet you never say it.

You defend the theory behind their spending. You defend their perceived effort. You defend the managerial style as if Servais has little to no impact on anything. You hardly ever say something critical.

All you do is play the role of a contrarian shill.

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Donn Beach » Fri May 26, 2023 5:28 pm

No it's because I don't complain enough. It's up to the owners to spend or not spend, it's up to the players to decide if they care or not. And I think SS has done more than anybody to squeeze out their 90 win seasons.

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Seattle or Bust » Fri May 26, 2023 5:44 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 5:28 pm
No it's because I don't complain enough. It's up to the owners to spend or not spend, it's up to the players to decide if they care or not. And I think SS has done more than anybody to squeeze out their 90 win seasons.
I don't.

I think they consistently play below their potential/talent level.

They've won a lot of 1-run games over the last 2 years. Good for them. But nobody would say the M's teams of the last 2 years have put forward a real contender. Nobody would say that Servais has managed players above their potential or elevated the talent to surpass its threshold.

The fact that we're sitting at 25th in baseball in OPS and Geno/Julio/Teo are hitting some 200 points below their anticipated OPS threshold, France 100 points less, JP, Raleigh more or less about where they should be, and Pollock/Wong have fallen off a literal cliff... leaving Kelenic as the only nice surprise... that's an embarrassment and indictment on whatever the fuck is going on in that club house.

One player has elevated their play in a season where contention is expected. And you don't think that's an indictment on player effort, managerial style, and the standard the organization sets?

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Donn Beach » Fri May 26, 2023 5:53 pm

An indictment? Actually for as bad as the offense is, I think SS is doing a pretty good job getting them over.500.

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Seattle or Bust » Fri May 26, 2023 6:04 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 5:53 pm
An indictment? Actually for as bad as the offense is, I think SS is doing a pretty good job getting them over.500.
Give any manager the starting staff the M's have and they are at .500. Give the A's the M's starting staff and they are likely .500.

The A's and M's are more-or-less the same offensively. Which again... is utterly pathetic given what we're running out there vs what they are.

A's: .222/.299/.362/.661 w. 386 total hits, 68 doubles, 54 homers, 6 triples, 166 walks, 489 K's.

M's: .229/.310/.382/.692 w. 383 total hits, 82 doubles, 55 homers, 4 triples, 171 walks, 478 K's.

The only difference between the M's and the A's offense is some 14 doubles.

I'd say Mark Kotsay is elevating the talent around him considering they are basically the same offense as the M's.

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Donn Beach » Fri May 26, 2023 6:15 pm

So SS is responsible for the offense but the pitching fell out of the sky, okay

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Seattle or Bust » Fri May 26, 2023 6:21 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 6:15 pm
So SS is responsible for the offense but the pitching fell out of the sky, okay
He might be good at managing the pitching staff... maybe even better than most. I'll give him that. But I also don't blame him solely for the offensive woes... I think he's a part of it.

As I said, I think player effort, player mentality, leadership in the club house, and expectations set by the organization when it comes to offensive production/expectation to perform lacks in a big way.

I think this offense lacks talent to be a top-10 offense, yes. But that's no excuse for the guys who do have talent to be hitting well below expectations. They should be mid-tier at worst and they're bottom-tier. There's just no excuse for that other than professional athletes not being held accountable and the organization not setting a standard that this isn't OK.

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Re: Interesting quote from Jays manager on player urgency to win.

Post by Seattle or Bust » Fri May 26, 2023 6:49 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 6:15 pm
So SS is responsible for the offense but the pitching fell out of the sky, okay
I also don't understand why you look at what I posted which shows the A's and the M's being basically the same offense despite the disparity in talent and you have to make a contrarian statement that shifts the goal post.

Why can't you just read what I wrote and say, "you know... it's probably not good that the A's and M's have put up similar numbers offensively. maybe there is something going when the offense has been this consistently bad in the Dipoto/Servais regime."

You always have some contrarian response that shifts the emphasis.

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