Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

trharder
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by trharder » Wed May 18, 2022 7:29 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 4:15 pm
oh I hope they try to make him a pocket passer. This has failed every. single. time. it has been tried in the NFL. Rick Mirer is remembered as an epic bust, but people forget that he was amazing his rookie year. Offensive ROY if I remember right. Why? Because he RAN - he was fast and elusive, which wasn't really a thing back then. They made a concerted effort to keep him in the pocket, and he crashed and burned immediately. Tebow was never allowed to do what he does, Krappernick was effective running, but as soon as he was kept in the pocket, crap. RG III was hot garbage once he lost the ability to run. Lamar Jackson will be the next if he tweaks and ankle.
A running QB can make the difference between an average running game and an elite one. That extra 50 yards/game on plays that were supposed to be passes really changes the stat sheet.
To say I 100% agree with this doesn't seem adequate. I've always felt this way and it was one of the biggest reasons why I used to love RW.
I'm old enough to remember when this opinion was thought to be blasphemy.
In addition to your reasons, I would add; I believe a QB that takes off running to move the chains demoralizes a defense. It's the ultimate FU to a defense that might otherwise be solid on every front.

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douche
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by douche » Wed May 18, 2022 8:22 pm

trharder wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:16 pm
auroraave wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 3:01 pm
The number of QB's who can carry an offense without a running game is very small. This notion that Seattle somehow disproportionately runs the ball is simply false....
but there seems to be this myth that he has dragged Seattle along, when I am not sure the opposite can't be argued. The most success Seattle has had was when a strong running game was present - and that is not to take anything away from Wilson's contributions - he's been really good. But for people that actually follow the team - his decline, limitations, and lack of motivation is glaring....
I apologize for nitpicking when I mostly agree with you, but
I often felt RW did basically carry the offense. Not the team mind you, as when they were really good, the strongest component was the defense. As everyone here is agreeing, he did this with his legs, athleticism, hustle, improvisation and arm. Point being, not just his arm. At one point, RW was actually clutch. He would amp up his creativity and running as much as it took, late in a game, to get it done. The most obvious dreadful exception being the game losing pick in the SB. Back in the day, it felt like Pete and JS relied on RW manufacturing offense despite the O-line not being that good, allowing them to concentrate more on fortifying the defense.

Somewhere along the line, RW became less willing to put the game on his back (legs). Maybe it was age. Maybe it's his delusional assessment of his own ability as a pure passer. Maybe both.
Agreed. That season (2017) where he threw a league leading 34 TDs while hampered by injuries was impressive. He certainly carried the team that year.

auroraave
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by auroraave » Wed May 18, 2022 9:39 pm

douche wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 8:22 pm
trharder wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:16 pm
auroraave wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 3:01 pm
The number of QB's who can carry an offense without a running game is very small. This notion that Seattle somehow disproportionately runs the ball is simply false....
but there seems to be this myth that he has dragged Seattle along, when I am not sure the opposite can't be argued. The most success Seattle has had was when a strong running game was present - and that is not to take anything away from Wilson's contributions - he's been really good. But for people that actually follow the team - his decline, limitations, and lack of motivation is glaring....
I apologize for nitpicking when I mostly agree with you, but
I often felt RW did basically carry the offense. Not the team mind you, as when they were really good, the strongest component was the defense. As everyone here is agreeing, he did this with his legs, athleticism, hustle, improvisation and arm. Point being, not just his arm. At one point, RW was actually clutch. He would amp up his creativity and running as much as it took, late in a game, to get it done. The most obvious dreadful exception being the game losing pick in the SB. Back in the day, it felt like Pete and JS relied on RW manufacturing offense despite the O-line not being that good, allowing them to concentrate more on fortifying the defense.

Somewhere along the line, RW became less willing to put the game on his back (legs). Maybe it was age. Maybe it's his delusional assessment of his own ability as a pure passer. Maybe both.
Agreed. That season (2017) where he threw a league leading 34 TDs while hampered by injuries was impressive. He certainly carried the team that year.
No question RW has had his moments and carried the offense - he should be lauded for all his accomplishments, absolutely. That was the year he also led the team in rushing because all the RB's were injured. The RB situation was so unsettled as no one knew if Carson would be back, so Seattle went out and drafted the top rusher in the country in Rashaad Penny, a Heisman finalist with no injury history, the same guy some people call one of the worst draft picks. When your top need is an RB and you draft an RB, seems pretty logical. Carson returning and Penny getting injured were not data the team had available at the time. But on here - the meltdowns have been priceless and, as always, never take any context into account. lmao!

Wilson earned his stripes, but ironically, that 2017 season may have been his peak year - soon after he got married and reprioritized his life around her and brand building. Diminishing skills, limited skill set, motivation, all are reasonable fingers to point - but we have not seen that magic, really, since that season. And they only went 9-7 and missed the playoffs! The following year with a monster running game - they went 10-6 and had that puke job vs the Cowboys. 2020 he had that torrid start and fell away half way through the season once 'cover two' was thrown at him and he's never really looked the same since - including that flop vs the Lambs. That was so ugly - not losing, but RW's total lack of preparedness. The team's success has been heavily predicated on a complimentary running attack - and that's not to take anything away from RW's contributions at all, it's just what the stats bear out. Last year Penny carried the load the last half of the season. I've said it a million times, RW was great, until he started checking out for chunks of the season. You cannot justify another monster contract knowing that is a very real possibility. Here's hoping the Donkey's SUCK.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by Donn Beach » Thu May 19, 2022 2:32 am

PFF saying it's his aggressiveness that's evolved. His best season was 2019 in terms of war with a a 4.6, think he could have a 4.0 season with the broncos

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-examining- ... areer-2022
.But the fact remains that Wilson has been a more aggressive passer in recent seasons. Even without an increase in third-down efficiency, Wilson in 2019 posted a career-high single-season WAR of 4.60, along with his best-ever PFF passing grade of 91.1. These career-best numbers were fueled in part by a career-low 1.7% turnover-worthy play rate.

If Wilson is the same type of aggressive passer for Denver, it's possible for him to return another WAR over 4.0 under similar circumstances.
Last edited by Donn Beach on Thu May 19, 2022 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

SeattleAddict
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by SeattleAddict » Thu May 19, 2022 3:56 am

auroraave wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 9:39 pm
The RB situation was so unsettled as no one knew if Carson would be back, so Seattle went out and drafted the top rusher in the country in Rashaad Penny, a Heisman finalist with no injury history, the same guy some people call one of the worst draft picks. When your top need is an RB and you draft an RB, seems pretty logical. Carson returning and Penny getting injured were not data the team had available at the time. But on here - the meltdowns have been priceless and, as always, never take any context into account. lmao!
No, the selection of a RB wasn't the problem, the problem was taking PENNY. Michel, Chubb, Jones and Guice were rated higher, Penny having a second round grade. The problem was they reached for him, and besides Carson, they also had Rawls, although he was for some reason in the doghouse. Hell, imagine if they'd drafted Lamar Jackson and made him a RB. We'd have been 16-0.

Besides that, the complaint about Penny wasn't the injuries, it was the fact that he absolutely sucked. Could not break a tackle, couldn't AVOID a tackler, and couldn't hit a hole for 3 1/2 years. The injuries were just a punchline about him, not the complaint.

I am still dumbfounded by what I saw the last 5-6 weeks of the season. That could not be the same guy. It was just bizarre how he looked like a completely different player.

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D-train
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by D-train » Thu May 19, 2022 12:13 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:56 am
auroraave wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 9:39 pm
The RB situation was so unsettled as no one knew if Carson would be back, so Seattle went out and drafted the top rusher in the country in Rashaad Penny, a Heisman finalist with no injury history, the same guy some people call one of the worst draft picks. When your top need is an RB and you draft an RB, seems pretty logical. Carson returning and Penny getting injured were not data the team had available at the time. But on here - the meltdowns have been priceless and, as always, never take any context into account. lmao!
No, the selection of a RB wasn't the problem, the problem was taking PENNY. Michel, Chubb, Jones and Guice were rated higher, Penny having a second round grade. The problem was they reached for him, and besides Carson, they also had Rawls, although he was for some reason in the doghouse. Hell, imagine if they'd drafted Lamar Jackson and made him a RB. We'd have been 16-0.

Besides that, the complaint about Penny wasn't the injuries, it was the fact that he absolutely sucked. Could not break a tackle, couldn't AVOID a tackler, and couldn't hit a hole for 3 1/2 years. The injuries were just a punchline about him, not the complaint.

I am still dumbfounded by what I saw the last 5-6 weeks of the season. That could not be the same guy. It was just bizarre how he looked like a completely different player.
JS and PC must have been focused on the Heisman vote totals. Penny was 5th but I wonder why they didn't take Baker Mayfield. He was 1st! :lol:
dt

Michael K.
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by Michael K. » Thu May 19, 2022 1:47 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:56 am

I am still dumbfounded by what I saw the last 5-6 weeks of the season. That could not be the same guy. It was just bizarre how he looked like a completely different player.
He is about to be up for a second contract. If he stays healthy he will probably get one too, but since he is a RB it won't be very long, and probably not as much money as he wants.

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D-train
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by D-train » Thu May 19, 2022 1:54 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:47 pm
SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:56 am

I am still dumbfounded by what I saw the last 5-6 weeks of the season. That could not be the same guy. It was just bizarre how he looked like a completely different player.
He is about to be up for a second contract. If he stays healthy he will probably get one too, but since he is a RB it won't be very long, and probably not as much money as he wants.
He just got one.

https://www.nfl.com/news/rashaad-penny- ... -deal-2022
dt

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Thu May 19, 2022 2:10 pm

Clint Hurtt was on with Salk yesterday and it was a very good interview. He sounds likehe won't be running that mamby pamby bullshit coverage scheme that they did under Norton. He wants to be more aggressive with the corners.

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D-train
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Re: Denver Radio v. Mike Salk

Post by D-train » Thu May 19, 2022 2:23 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:10 pm
Clint Hurtt was on with Salk yesterday and it was a very good interview. He sounds likehe won't be running that mamby pamby bullshit coverage scheme that they did under Norton. He wants to be more aggressive with the corners.
Yeah I think people are underestimating how huge trashing that dogshit scheme will be. Throw in a healthy Adams playing in that new improved scheme, the two new drafted corners, the two drafted Edge rushers and the FA LBs and I think our D might even be close to top 10.
dt

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