PFF power rankings

Michael K.
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by Michael K. » Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:03 pm

D-train wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:38 pm
This insistence on keeping Toro in the lineup is getting pretty F-ing old.
Can you imagine what that trade would look like if with all of these injuries he STILL couldn't get in the lineup? My guess is they are just praying that he has another month stretch like he had to finish last year...save a little face.

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D-train
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by D-train » Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:14 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:03 pm
D-train wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:38 pm
This insistence on keeping Toro in the lineup is getting pretty F-ing old.
Can you imagine what that trade would look like if with all of these injuries he STILL couldn't get in the lineup? My guess is they are just praying that he has another month stretch like he had to finish last year...save a little face.
Yep, totally agree. Its pathetic. Meanwhile 17 days after signing him and after he hit two Bombs in two days Upton is still in Tacoma.
dt

Michael K.
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by Michael K. » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:52 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:47 pm
it's like people never learn. How many of these great physical specimens ended up being great NFL QBs? How many flamed out completely?

I can't think of any of the physically dominant QBs that scouts drooled over doing anything, but I remember a lot of Jeff Georges and Jamarcus Russells.

Nowhere does that say ONLY. I pointed out that just about EVERY one that is successful has some amazing physical trait. Lamar Jackson won an MVP because of his legs. Your point about all these guys that flame out is silly. You named TWO! The Bills got ripped for drafting Allen because of his traits. I bet they don't really want that one back. If you seriously think there are more Jeff George and Jamarcus Russells than there are stud QBs that had amazing physical traits than I disagree.

Jeff George wasn't exactly a small time college guy with big time combine numbers. Neither was Jamarcus. Shit, Newton won a Heisman. A lot of these guys put up big numbers in college, they just didn't have the head to make it in the NFL. But for every Russell and Kyler, you don't think there are more Herbert and Mahomes? I still disagree with your assesment. There are WAY more successful QBs that fit the prototype mold there then are others. RG III is a case in point. Do you think if Herbert or Kyler could be drafted tomorrow, anyone would take Kyler?
Last edited by Michael K. on Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by SeattleAddict » Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:50 am

Michael K. wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:52 pm
SeattleAddict wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:47 pm
it's like people never learn. How many of these great physical specimens ended up being great NFL QBs? How many flamed out completely?

I can't think of any of the physically dominant QBs that scouts drooled over doing anything, but I remember a lot of Jeff Georges and Jamarcus Russells.

Just about EVERY NFL QB is six foot three or taller with a rocket arm. I am not sure what you are getting at. Can you name the last NFL starting QB not named Kyler or Russ to NOT be one of those guys?
If you can find a starting QB in the NFL that isn't elite physically at something, I will be shocked.
QBs under 6'3":
Russell Wilson
Kyler Murray
Drew Brees
Tyrod Taylor
Aaron Rodgers
Dak Prescott
Andy Dalton
RG III
Teddy Bridgewater
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Jimmy Garappolo
Tua
Lamar Jackson
Chase Daniel
Jalen Hurts
Taylor Heineke
Case Keenum
Baker Mayfield
Tyler Huntley
Colt McCoy
Gardner Minshew
Nick Mullens
Jake Fromm
Matt Barkley
Taysom Hill
Brian Hoyer
Josh Johnson
Mitch Trubisky
Deshaun Watson
Zach Wilson
... should I go on? There's a bunch of no-name backups to add.

So, there are 1 or 2. But that isn't the point. The point is pushing him as the #6 overall based ONLY on being big and a big arm. That's the key - he hasn't done shit yet except look good on paper.

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Donn Beach
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:31 am

Here is a more thorough evaluation
One-Liner:
An adroit athlete with a small sample size, if Richardson can follow up his 2021 appearances with polish and precision, he may see the biggest rise of any draft prospect come 2023.

Evaluation:
Brawny frame from head to toe. Resembles an off-ball linebacker with mass throughout the upper body and posterior chain. Sizeable height and length for the position, with an intimidating structure. Overly poised for a player with such little experience. Very comfortable in the pocket and has the instinct to step up when it collapses, or escape the impending rush. Keeps his feet aligned at all times, allowing him to deliver quickly from a sturdy base or off-platform. Shows the ability to drop his arm angle and execute passes around defenders flailing arms. Twitchy release, with pop out of his elbow, and flick of the wrist nature. Relays this into compressed throwing windows, with plus arm strength and ball location. Despite the offense, is an anticipatory thrower with multiple plays made on secondary or tertiary reads in the progression. Throws with much better touch than presumed, considering his forceful release and playstyle. Layers the ball in the middle of the field, and can zing it past the defensive back's earhole on sideline fade routes. Runaway locomotive as a ball carrier, with quality speed and explosion behind running back pad level and play strength. Takes his toll on the defense, leaving third-level defenders second-guessing in the open field. Tremendous threat in short-yardage and goal-to-go situations thanks to quarterback power and draw execution. Inexperience and rawness were most evident in his decision-making. Far too reckless with the ball, throwing into double coverage, and running with careless ball carrying. Always a threat on second-reaction plays means he can abandon the pocket too quickly, throwing on the run with less precision and regressed mechanics. Trigger happy on the tuck and run element of his game, missing open pass catchers down the field. Vision needs work, with defenders reading his body language and roaming players robbing his passes. Was down multiple scores in the LSU game and never quit, single-handily clawing his team to trim the loss to 7 from a probable blowout.

Michael K.
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:50 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:50 am
Michael K. wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:52 pm
SeattleAddict wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:47 pm
it's like people never learn. How many of these great physical specimens ended up being great NFL QBs? How many flamed out completely?

I can't think of any of the physically dominant QBs that scouts drooled over doing anything, but I remember a lot of Jeff Georges and Jamarcus Russells.

Just about EVERY NFL QB is six foot three or taller with a rocket arm. I am not sure what you are getting at. Can you name the last NFL starting QB not named Kyler or Russ to NOT be one of those guys?
If you can find a starting QB in the NFL that isn't elite physically at something, I will be shocked.
QBs under 6'3":
Russell Wilson
Kyler Murray
Drew Brees
Tyrod Taylor
Aaron Rodgers
Dak Prescott
Andy Dalton
RG III
Teddy Bridgewater
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Jimmy Garappolo
Tua
Lamar Jackson
Chase Daniel
Jalen Hurts
Taylor Heineke
Case Keenum
Baker Mayfield
Tyler Huntley
Colt McCoy
Gardner Minshew
Nick Mullens
Jake Fromm
Matt Barkley
Taysom Hill
Brian Hoyer
Josh Johnson
Mitch Trubisky
Deshaun Watson
Zach Wilson
... should I go on? There's a bunch of no-name backups to add.

So, there are 1 or 2. But that isn't the point. The point is pushing him as the #6 overall based ONLY on being big and a big arm. That's the key - he hasn't done shit yet except look good on paper.
Oh my God, yeah, such a stagering list of studs you have there. And, as I said, name one without an elite ability. Half those guys are never going to be a difference maker and the other half are guys like Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts, Tua, etc. Guys that make a difference with their feet, as I already mentioned. Still, an elite physical ability.

No one has given this kid anything. These guys are projecting a stud talent going into a season of college and saying if he performs he will jump up boards. The fact is, these guys get over drafted because the risk is worth the reward. But to pretend that all these NFL teams get it wrong all the time is ridiculous.

QBs under 6'3":
Russell Wilson Mobile with elite deep ball
Kyler Murray Elite mobility and athlete
Drew Brees Oddity
Tyrod Taylor Come one. Back Up
Aaron Rodgers Yeah, his physical skills aren't what make him a great QB?
Dak Prescott Another if I lowered it to 6 foot 2
Andy Dalton You can have him
RG III One hit wonder who could run
Teddy Bridgewater Meh
Ryan Fitzpatrick double Meh. Mostly a Backup
Jimmy Garappolo LOL, Everyone in here hates on this guy, but now he is proving your point?
Tua Mobility
Lamar Jackson Mobility
Chase Daniel Who? Back Up
Jalen Hurts Mobility
Taylor Heineke Come on. Back Up
Case Keenum Good Christ. Back Up
Baker Mayfield Was doubted, mostly due to a small guy without elite mobility
Tyler Huntley Career Backup
Colt McCoy Fuck, really? Career Backup
Gardner Minshew Double Fuck, Really? Career Backup
Nick Mullens Who? Career Backup
Jake Fromm Who? Backup
Matt Barkley Who? Backup
Taysom Hill Now we are throwing in TEs and RBs? Backup
Brian Hoyer Who? Backup
Josh Johnson Who? Backup
Mitch Trubisky A draft pick that was HEAVILY criticized immediately. Mostly because the prototypical QB they passed up. Backup
Deshaun Watson Elite athleticism
Zach Wilson Little early no?
... should I go on? There's a bunch of no-name backups to add. Sure, prove my point that if a guy doesn't have elite mobility, if he starts at QB in the league he is probably the prototype. No one gets drafted because they are six foot three with a rocket arm only, but guys that aren't? Better run around like a rabbit.

Again, most of those guys are backups. You are cherry picking here. When I said Wilson and Kyler, I guess I should have thrown in a couple of guys that are a tad under 6 3? That said, I also said "If you can find a starting QB in the NFL that isn't elite physically at something, I will be shocked."

So, it is rather ridiculous that you threw in a guy like Rodgers, or guys with freakish mobility. When you take those out? Your list is dogshit, but yeah, a great list of dudes that hold a clipboard in the NFL. A BIG reason they hold a clipboard in the NFL? They are small and do nothing at an elite level.

SeattleAddict
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by SeattleAddict » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:24 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:50 pm



Just about EVERY NFL QB is six foot three or taller with a rocket arm. I am not sure what you are getting at. Can you name the last NFL starting QB not named Kyler or Russ to NOT be one of those guys?
If you can find a starting QB in the NFL that isn't elite physically at something, I will be shocked.


Again, most of those guys are backups. You are cherry picking here.
You are truly ridiculous sometimes. I made a point that he was being evaluated ONLY on physical traits, and you argue that QBs have elite traits... of COURSE they do. They're NFL QBs, the single-most elite position of all professional sports. They are the elite of the elite, so OBVIOUSLY they have something going for them. Sometimes it's being big and strong like Ben Rapelessberger, sometimes it's elite running skill like L. Jackson, sometimes it's work ethic of Peyton Manning, intelligence and ability to cheat of Tom Brady, or complete lack of fear like Favre, but being big and having a big arm is NOT an indicator of success, that is my point. If it were, then we wouldn't have an issue at QB, because Jacob Eason would be the guy.

Then you say I'm cherry picking? You said name a starting QB that isn't 6'3" with a rocket arm and I listed like 30 under 6'3", most of whom are or were recently starters, MVPs, #1 overall picks, and otherwise solid players. Some have rocket arms, some not. Some great runners, some not.

Your strawman arguments are tired. You keep asking for examples, then changing the narrative when they are provided. The point is and was that the kid has done nothing yet. Is it good that he has the physical tools to potentially be a good player? yes. The point, and ONLY point, was that until he does something on the football field, it is useless.

Michael K.
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:59 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:47 pm
it's like people never learn. How many of these great physical specimens ended up being great NFL QBs? How many flamed out completely?

I can't think of any of the physically dominant QBs that scouts drooled over doing anything, but I remember a lot of Jeff Georges and Jamarcus Russells.

Nowhere does that say ONLY. I pointed out that just about EVERY one that is successful has some amazing physical trait. Lamar Jackson won an MVP because of his legs. Your point about all these guys that flame out is silly. You named TWO! The Bills got ripped for drafting Allen because of his traits. I bet they don't really want that one back. If you seriously think there are more Jeff George and Jamarcus Russells than there are stud QBs that had amazing physical traits than I disagree.

Jeff George wasn't exactly a small time college guy with big time combine numbers. Neither was Jamarcus. Shit, Newton won a Heisman. The prototype guy is going to succeed at a much higher level than the guy that isn't. Not to mention, no one is saying that guy will do NOTHING in college and then go top 5. They are projecting him to do very well in the SEC, then get drafted high. I don't get your argument one bit. Do you believe there are honestly more Russ Wilsons and Kyler Murray than their are Pat Mahomes and Justin Herberts? If Herbert and Murray were in the draft right now, how many teams you think take Kyler?

Michael K.
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:10 pm

I attribute this debate much like I have my issues with Pete and Jimmy Lake's defenses for the past several years. Sometimes, when no one else does something, it's because it is a bad idea. Kind of like lining up behind the first down marker and backpedaling on the snap, or playing a base nickel and dime defense against a power run team. It's stupid.

I don't buy this shit that for every Justin Herbert there is a Jeff George. Which is a funny example since he started 10 or more games 8 different times in his 13 year career. That's right, a guy that was a starter most of his 13 year career, is the poster boy for failure! 13 years, and HE is the reason you SHOULDN'T draft a QB based on his physical traits? But, anyway....the reason these guys get drafted is not because most of the time the fail, it is exactly the opposite. These feel good stories about the little guy? Sure, they happen, but again, what do they ALL bring to the table? Besides Drew Brees, I can't think of a small QB that didn't use his legs.

What have we all complained about Russ lately? The short to intermediate middle of the field is now off limits, because he can't see it. He can no longer get outside to be able to see, so he flat out misses guys running free over the middle. Might not be a coincidence. You think opposing DCs don't see that? I still am amazed that Drew Brees threw to a spot he couldn't even see. All QBs throw to a spot, but not many of them can't even see the spot, let alone the WR.

These big strong armed QBs get drafted for a reason, and that reason is not because the Hall of Fame is littered with little guys who worked hard, and that all the big dudes are flops. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

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Donn Beach
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Re: PFF power rankings

Post by Donn Beach » Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:11 am

Richardson isn't considered a top prospect simply because he is tall with a strong arm, it is due to what is believed an elite combination of athletic skills. But he is considered raw and the sample size is small. It will be up to him to develop further this next season, show more polish and poise

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