Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

User avatar
Sexymarinersfan
Posts: 8302
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 11:34 pm
Location: Ft. Worth Texas
Contact:

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by Sexymarinersfan » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:47 pm

D-train wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:04 pm
Yeah I knew you would love those.... :)
I can't wait for draft day. I throw THE BIGGEST parties every year! I can't wait to see who our new QB will be.

Captain 97
Posts: 2732
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 9:23 pm

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by Captain 97 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:07 pm

This dude thinks the Seahawks will trade up to #1 to draft Carter.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2023-mock- ... 10730.html

Michael K.
Posts: 11347
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 5:27 am

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:48 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:50 am

Every one of these is nightmare fuel for me. Reach for a mediocre edge, pick a highly overrated QB, and even Ringo is overrated (though he might be pretty good... just some people have him going top 8, which I think is insane. Sauce, he is not). Why does everybody think we need an EDGE so badly?? We could use a TJ Watt, Micah Parsons or Joey Bosa, but other than Anderson, there are none of those types out there. These "experts" are full of shit, and hopefully PC/JS are not.

Look closely at each one of these scenarios... assuming Geno comes back, other than the one with Carter, not one of them includes getting a starter out of TWO first round picks. Fuck the living Hell out of that.
You don't think Murphy or Smith can start on the Edge for this defense? I'd rather get a Tackle if Anderson is gone, but my guess is Carter is gone too, and I think Murphy or Smith might make a bigger impact here than one of the remaining interior guys. There are two or three stud DTs about to become Free Agents, and we have cap space. I'd rather have one of the Stud FAs and Murphy or Smith than I would some DT not named Carter. Even Carter worries me some. He was invisible when Ohio State was lighting up the scoreboard on them.

User avatar
Cascade Kid
Posts: 874
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:11 am

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by Cascade Kid » Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:27 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:48 pm
SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:50 am

Every one of these is nightmare fuel for me. Reach for a mediocre edge, pick a highly overrated QB, and even Ringo is overrated (though he might be pretty good... just some people have him going top 8, which I think is insane. Sauce, he is not). Why does everybody think we need an EDGE so badly?? We could use a TJ Watt, Micah Parsons or Joey Bosa, but other than Anderson, there are none of those types out there. These "experts" are full of shit, and hopefully PC/JS are not.

Look closely at each one of these scenarios... assuming Geno comes back, other than the one with Carter, not one of them includes getting a starter out of TWO first round picks. Fuck the living Hell out of that.
You don't think Murphy or Smith can start on the Edge for this defense? I'd rather get a Tackle if Anderson is gone, but my guess is Carter is gone too, and I think Murphy or Smith might make a bigger impact here than one of the remaining interior guys. There are two or three stud DTs about to become Free Agents, and we have cap space. I'd rather have one of the Stud FAs and Murphy or Smith than I would some DT not named Carter. Even Carter worries me some. He was invisible when Ohio State was lighting up the scoreboard on them.
Yup. I think Murphy is a starter. He might not be a Joey Bosa, but he would be the best guy on our front seven. I would concede that better value can be found later in the 1st round and into the late 2nd round. Guys like Siaki Ika, Will McDonald IV and Zach Harrison are all very interesting prospects at their draft values.

I'm not opposed to moving out of #5 if Carter or Stroud are not there for a package of picks that includes a 2024 1st rounder.

SeattleAddict
Posts: 3725
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:25 pm

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by SeattleAddict » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:17 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:48 pm

You don't think Murphy or Smith can start on the Edge for this defense?
Murphy maybe... but we have two recent second round picks at that position, so at best it'd be a 3-way platoon so "starter" would just be a technicality. I suppose it's possible they trade Taylor to make room, but until/unless that happens, I don't see drafting an edge with #5 (unless somehow Anderson falls - he's a game changer).

And I keep beating this drum, but both those edges are 4-3 DEs, so it just doesn't make sense. Maybe they can adapt to the new position, but it took Taylor 2/3 a season to not look terrible in it, so it's a big risk. Assuming they release Collier and Jefferson, only Shelby Harris would be on the other end, so maybe they envision one of those guys growing into that spot??

I don't know why you'd pick a tackle at 5, given the investment last year, for the same reason. Later on? Absolutely. I'd actually rather see them pick a WR if the D-linemen are gone. Not the biggest need, but imagine having a 3-headed monster of DK, Lockett and Quentin Johnston, for instance.

I think you need immediate starters out of #5 and #20, and right now the openings are: ILB, IDL, C, RG, CB2, WR3. Unlikely you pick a C, G or MLB that high, so I will be shocked if they don't trade back (assuming Carter/Anderson are off the board)

User avatar
D-train
Posts: 67964
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am
Location: Quincy, MA

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by D-train » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:20 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:17 pm
Michael K. wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:48 pm

You don't think Murphy or Smith can start on the Edge for this defense?
Murphy maybe... but we have two recent second round picks at that position, so at best it'd be a 3-way platoon so "starter" would just be a technicality. I suppose it's possible they trade Taylor to make room, but until/unless that happens, I don't see drafting an edge with #5 (unless somehow Anderson falls - he's a game changer).

And I keep beating this drum, but both those edges are 4-3 DEs, so it just doesn't make sense. Maybe they can adapt to the new position, but it took Taylor 2/3 a season to not look terrible in it, so it's a big risk. Assuming they release Collier and Jefferson, only Shelby Harris would be on the other end, so maybe they envision one of those guys growing into that spot??

I don't know why you'd pick a tackle at 5, given the investment last year, for the same reason. Later on? Absolutely. I'd actually rather see them pick a WR if the D-linemen are gone. Not the biggest need, but imagine having a 3-headed monster of DK, Lockett and Quentin Johnston, for instance.

I think you need immediate starters out of #5 and #20, and right now the openings are: ILB, IDL, C, RG, CB2, WR3. Unlikely you pick a C, G or MLB that high, so I will be shocked if they don't trade back (assuming Carter/Anderson are off the board)
Curious how playing edge is different in a 4-3 vs. 3-4. Why is it significant that there are one or 2 Tackles between you and the other Edge. I plead total ignorance and am just trying to understand. Thanks.
dt

Michael K.
Posts: 11347
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 5:27 am

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:36 pm

Cascade Kid wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:27 pm

I'm not opposed to moving out of #5 if Carter or Stroud are not there for a package of picks that includes a 2024 1st rounder.
I could see that. Fucking Chargers. Trading down isn't as terrible anymore. LOL

There are guys I like though.

Michael K.
Posts: 11347
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 5:27 am

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:39 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:17 pm

And I keep beating this drum, but both those edges are 4-3 DEs, so it just doesn't make sense. Maybe they can adapt to the new position, but it took Taylor 2/3 a season to not look terrible in it, so it's a big risk. Assuming they release Collier and Jefferson, only Shelby Harris would be on the other end, so maybe they envision one of those guys growing into that spot??
I get the impression they would end up being more of an OLB here right? Like Irvin?
SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:17 pm
I don't know why you'd pick a tackle at 5, given the investment last year, for the same reason. Later on? Absolutely. I'd actually rather see them pick a WR if the D-linemen are gone. Not the biggest need, but imagine having a 3-headed monster of DK, Lockett and Quentin Johnston, for instance.
Zero reason to take an Offensive Tackle there, IMO, but I meant DT.
SeattleAddict wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:17 pm
I think you need immediate starters out of #5 and #20, and right now the openings are: ILB, IDL, C, RG, CB2, WR3. Unlikely you pick a C, G or MLB that high, so I will be shocked if they don't trade back (assuming Carter/Anderson are off the board)
Yeah, like I said....Fucking Chargers. If it hadn't have fucked my Pool Selection? I'd have been laughing my ass off while they choked in the Playoffs.

Michael K.
Posts: 11347
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 5:27 am

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by Michael K. » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:41 pm

D-train wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:20 pm

Curious how playing edge is different in a 4-3 vs. 3-4. Why is it significant that there are one or 2 Tackles between you and the other Edge. I plead total ignorance and am just trying to understand. Thanks.
I am far from an expert, but a guy who plays "Edge" in college is usually a 3 - 4 OLB. Think Taylor or Irvin. Be interesting to see what they think of the kid from Syracuse that was on IR all year. Robinson...Alton or Aldon, can't remember.

Anyway, think Poona Ford. Was a DT in a 4 - 3 and an DE in a 3 - 4. BUT, he is not an Edge. That is how I interpret it. The kid from Bama might be able to play both DE and OLB in a 3 - 4, and I am sure there are some guys like that. But, seriously? Don't most of them become pass rushers on 2nd and 3rd down anyway unless they play ILB? Obviously that is an over generalization...I understand that those guys aren't rushing all the time, but still.

SeattleAddict
Posts: 3725
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:25 pm

Re: Who do the Mocks have us taking at #5 right now

Post by SeattleAddict » Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:34 pm

D-train wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:20 pm


Curious how playing edge is different in a 4-3 vs. 3-4. Why is it significant that there are one or 2 Tackles between you and the other Edge. I plead total ignorance and am just trying to understand. Thanks.
There are subtleties that I don't pretend to understand, but I'll try to explain my limited understanding of it in a poorly thought-out, awkward and somewhat incorrect way:

in a 4-3, you have something like: EDGE- DT - DT - EDGE (two fast guys that rush from either side, plus two big guys clogging the middle)
in a 3-4, it's more like: EDGE - Gigantic immovable NT (like Woods) - hybrid DT/DE that is bigger than a DE, not quite as big as NT (like Harris or Collier), then one OLB that sometimes rushes, sometimes covers (Nwosu).

the 3-4 plays much the same, but gives more flexibility.

So, a 4-3 edge will often be a pass rush specialist and set the edge, so can often be smaller and quicker (not necessarily), and are for the most part interchangeable with one another (again, subtleties here). With a 3-4, you have one guy that is like a 4-3 DE, and the other guy is more of a hybrid that rushes but also stuffs the run. Murphy has the body for this, but hasn't played this position, so he could be a HR or a bust if made to change.

The Seahawks have Irvin, Mafe and Taylor, that are listed as OLBs I think, but play opposite Nwosu, effectively the DE, and tried to play Poona/Jefferson/Harris as the hybrid (my term for descriptive purposes, not an actual thing).

Post Reply