Can we end the Penny experiment?

Michael K.
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Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by Michael K. » Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:41 pm

This actually strikes me as one of Seattle’s more interesting free agent decisions. Carroll said in his end-of-year news conference that Penny thought he might be healthy enough to play if Seattle had made a long playoff run following his ankle injury suffered Oct. 9 at New Orleans.
WTF. So, there was never one single inclination that he was ready for WC weekend, BUT, he might play in the playoffs? Bullshit. This is the same guy that was over weight because of a hand injury. Please, for the love of all that is Holy, draft a back and let someone else pay this guy to be on the injury report all year!

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... subscriber
It’s also a pretty loaded year for free agent running backs. A recent list of the top 10 available from NBCsports.com didn’t even include Penny, leading off with Saquon Barkley of the Giants, Josh Jacobs of the Raiders and Tony Pollard of the Cowboys.

In other words, Penny might be there to be had on another one-year deal, and maybe even less costly than in 2022.

Certainly, Walker showed he can be a No. 1 back and that position is hardly Seattle’s greatest need.

But this season also proved you can never have too running backs to navigate a 17-game regular season, and then what every team hopes is a few more postseason games. So a return of Penny might make sense.
I see that differently. If it is a "loaded year" there are going to be guys available that might actually play a full season. OR, do what I have been saying for years now, DRAFT a RB, stop fucking PAYING a RB. There is not one position in football more ready to play the game as a Rookie than a fucking RB. Yet we only draft them when we already have two. Sorry, that is not true, the Walker move was genius. So? Do it again. Why not? Most of the simulations I have done have big time college RBs available late. The kid from UCLA being one of them. Get someone to be Walker's backup, and you still have Dallas. That is a pretty damn good RB room. Penny is NOT going to be on the field, so just stop it. Why sign him on another one year deal to find out if you have to do it again next year, or have to let him walk and draft one again?

Drafting another guy this year means we could very well be set for three or so years with two good young Backs that aren't making much money. Or? We could do what teams that don't make the playoff do, and over pay for the position because we fell in love with Todd Gurley. The Rams, IMO, are still paying for that move.

Of the five biggest cap hits at RB last year? Only Zeke and the Cowboys made the playoffs, and Zeke isn't even there starter. They are paying the second biggest cap hit to a fucking short yardage back, and when the other back got hurt everyone in Cowboy land used it as an excuse for why they lost. YOU STILL HAD A GUY WITH A $16.7 CAP HIT ON THE FIELD!

Stop fucking paying RBs. It does NOT work.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/running-back/

That list is eye opening.

Top Five biggest Cap Hit? One playoff team
Top Five total Cash? 3 playoff teams. So? Get creative I guess? But, besides the 49ers? Vikings and Cowboys. Not great.
Top Five Base Salary? 3 playoff teams. Same as above. Zeke, Cook and Run CMC.

I don't think the Vikings and the Cowboys are models to shoot for, though it is interesting how much talent the Cowboys have amassed despite over paying for a Full Back.

I guess it might get interesting down the road for the 49ers. But, everyone bitches about the Cap Hit number.

Top Five Cap Hit
Aaron Jones - no playoffs
Zeke - made the playoffs but isn't the teams #1 back
Derrick Henry - team completely collapsed and missed the playoffs because they can't throw the ball AT ALL.
Alvin Kamara - Absolute shit show that now has a TE, the Red Rifle or Shameis the Molester at QB.
Nick Chubb - Best back in football, but now surrounded by dogshit

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douche
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by douche » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:23 pm

Remember when Shanahan (Mike) was coach in DEN? He went through a string of backs, and all were productive within his system... Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Tatum Bell...

From Wikipedia: He often found unheralded running backs from later rounds of the draft and turned them into league-leading rushers behind small but powerful offensive lines.

SeattleAddict
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by SeattleAddict » Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:51 am

Man, I'd love to see Charbonnet paired up with Walker as a sort of thunder-and-lightning combo.

Although, imagine if they added Josh Jacobs *swoon*. Yeah, he'll be paid a fortune so it can't/won't/shouldn't happen, but damn, what a combo that would be.

I agree though, there are a lot of good looking backs that should be available around the 4th round, or with one of the 3rd round picks I expect us to pick up when we trade down from #5. I see no real reason to sign Penny with Walker balling out like he did, although if he wants to sign for vet minimum I wouldn't hate it. I'd rather get a mid-tier veteran that can come in and be reliable as a blocker and receiver but not take away carries from K9.

trharder
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by trharder » Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:21 am

Some team will give Penny a job. I admit- Penny likely crossed the bar of how many chances, but who else could push Walker?
What would a season look like if both Walker and Penny were available for 15 games? Penny is only 26.

If Geno can do it, Penny can too. ;)

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Donn Beach
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by Donn Beach » Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:01 am

It be a do over of this season's prove it contract, when healthy he has been pretty good

He is at 337 attempts believe it is
.Penny, for his part, has been bonkers efficient during his young career. He has an insane career yards-per-carry average of 5.7. Five. Point. Seven. The highest career yards per carry mark among all RBs in modern-era NFL history among those with at least 750 career attempts is 5.4, an honor owned by the legendary Jamaal Charles.
Article on whether to re-sign him or not
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/will ... b-in-2023/

auroraave
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by auroraave » Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:50 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:01 am
It be a do over of this season's prove it contract, when healthy he has been pretty good

He is at 337 attempts believe it is
.Penny, for his part, has been bonkers efficient during his young career. He has an insane career yards-per-carry average of 5.7. Five. Point. Seven. The highest career yards per carry mark among all RBs in modern-era NFL history among those with at least 750 career attempts is 5.4, an honor owned by the legendary Jamaal Charles.
Article on whether to re-sign him or not
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/will ... b-in-2023/
While this is all true, ultimately the problem with your position is you are using context that shows Penny is a productive back and is an asset when healthy. You are not allowed to use context in any way that goes against the tired "PC/JS SUCK!" narrative on here. Remember - every player they have drafted that has gotten injured proves they suck, because I can google all the players from those drafts taken after Penny or any other injury-plagued player, and find the ones having the greatest careers, and say "that's who I would've taken" which, of course, proves "PC/JS suck!"
Context not furthering the "PC?JS SUCK narrative is not allowed. Losing all your players at a key position - drafting an all american to fill that void is somehow incomprehensible on here - it's never been done before - why? Because PC/JS suck. They should've KNOWN he'd get injured - right? :lol:
I am in no way saying I would've drafted Penny, I am saying the pick was 100% logical and rational given the situation - but we have to ignore that context, because PC/JS suck and the crystal ball and hindsight drafters on here know more.

Wash, rinse repeat.

Gametime
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by Gametime » Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:13 pm

Let’s end the Homer era too. He is hurt every other time he comes in the game.

Michael K.
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by Michael K. » Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:20 pm

auroraave wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:50 pm
Donn Beach wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:01 am
It be a do over of this season's prove it contract, when healthy he has been pretty good

He is at 337 attempts believe it is
.Penny, for his part, has been bonkers efficient during his young career. He has an insane career yards-per-carry average of 5.7. Five. Point. Seven. The highest career yards per carry mark among all RBs in modern-era NFL history among those with at least 750 career attempts is 5.4, an honor owned by the legendary Jamaal Charles.
Article on whether to re-sign him or not
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/will ... b-in-2023/
While this is all true, ultimately the problem with your position is you are using context that shows Penny is a productive back and is an asset when healthy. You are not allowed to use context in any way that goes against the tired "PC/JS SUCK!" narrative on here. Remember - every player they have drafted that has gotten injured proves they suck, because I can google all the players from those drafts taken after Penny or any other injury-plagued player, and find the ones having the greatest careers, and say "that's who I would've taken" which, of course, proves "PC/JS suck!"
Context not furthering the "PC?JS SUCK narrative is not allowed. Losing all your players at a key position - drafting an all american to fill that void is somehow incomprehensible on here - it's never been done before - why? Because PC/JS suck. They should've KNOWN he'd get injured - right? :lol:
I am in no way saying I would've drafted Penny, I am saying the pick was 100% logical and rational given the situation - but we have to ignore that context, because PC/JS suck and the crystal ball and hindsight drafters on here know more.

Wash, rinse repeat.
:roll:

Nice straw man. Point out one comment about PC or JS sucking? You are so ridiculously stuck on your own single straw man argument you make it on every argument. If a guy plays one game and gains 200 yards, but never plays again, I don't give three fucks about what he does per game, I don't give one fuck about who drafted him or what round. There is ZERO evidence to support paying him makes sense. I would say that, most likely, if he PLAYED! The only time someone talks about what someone does WHEN ON THE FIELD is to describe guys that CAN"T STAY ON THE FIELD. Great, when healthy is just another word for never healthy!

In five years he's played in 42 games. PLAYED IN, not started, PLAYED IN. So, he has missed 40 of a possible 82 games. Let that sink in. Games started? 11. We need to pay a veteran RB who has started just over 2 games a season in his career?

14 games and 0 starts
10 games and 0 starts
3 games and 0 starts
10 games and 6 starts
5 games and 5 starts.

Not a great trend. He has played in 28 of his team's last 70 games. Read that again. In the past four seasons he has missed 42 games and played in 28. He has missed 2.5 seasons worth of games in the past 4 season. Shit, pay the man right!? Good fucking God. AA, if you are so enamored with PC and JS's drafting skills, why are you so sure we shouldn't draft another one?

He has never played more games than the 14 as a rookie, and he was third string for much of that year because an injured HAND forced him to gain weight and not be ready to start the season. Name a time, either during the season or before the season that injuries weren't a problem for this guy! You can NOT.

Get over your self Aurora. This has NOTHING to do with who drafted him or where, and EVERYTHING to do with a guy that averages 2 starts and 8 games played over five years not needing to eat up salary cap space. Missed 42 of the last 70! And you think my beef with him is the draft? That's real genius dude.

SeattleAddict
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by SeattleAddict » Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:51 pm

He also S-U-C-K-E-D in the year he played 14 games. No matter what stats you use, he was only good for the final 5 games in 2021 and the 5 games he played in 2022.

The one thing I can say in favor of signing him is it'd be as a backup to Walker, and if you could get 8 or 9 good games out of Penny, it'd be worth a vet minimum type deal. Or give him performance bonuses like "games played" and "snaps played".

Sadly, I don't know that you can actually expect 8 or 9 games out of him. My fear is that he signs with a team with a good O-line and manages to stay healthy. He might run for 2500 yards. :lol:

Michael K.
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Re: Can we end the Penny experiment?

Post by Michael K. » Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:31 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:51 pm

Sadly, I don't know that you can actually expect 8 or 9 games out of him. My fear is that he signs with a team with a good O-line and manages to stay healthy. He might run for 2500 yards. :lol:
I'd be willing to risk it. So, you sign him to a vet minimum, fine, I'd still rather have the rookie that isn't the health risk. I just love the double standard. Me saying Pete and John should draft a guy instead of paying this one is me somehow saying they are shitty at drafting! AA just won't let the Penny and McDowell thing go. Sorry, guys deserve criticism over bad picks just as much as they deserve credit for the good ones, comes with the job, and everyone but AA understand that, for the most part.

The thing is, this isn't about that. We just can't pay this guy, IMO. He signed for one year $5.75 million. Walker's average annual salary is $2.1. Not sure about the cap hit, but Walker's signing bonus was $3.3 and the total was $8.4 over 4 years. I'd rather have him and another rookie at a similar salary or so. Combined they wouldn't have much more of a cap hit than Penny, if not less.. If the average is $2.1, do they stagger Rookies, or is it 2.1 of a cap hit over 4 years unless they cut them and then you have to eat all the signing bonus?

I just looked up the Veteran minimum, and for players with four to six years of service it was $990,000 last year. Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt Penny is going to take a $4 million pay decrease to stay here for the minimum salary. Sometimes you have to cut bait. Five years of injuries is enough. Let someone else worry about whether he can suite up or not.

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