He’s back!!!

Michael K.
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by Michael K. » Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:06 pm

douche wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:55 pm

Lots of tackles, but how many of those come after first down yardage has already been attained? In addition, I think he's physically a step slower than the younger guys. SEA has this historical tradition of signing players past their prime, after the tread has started to come off.

But perhaps his ability to mentor and lead by example can help bridge the rest of the group.

I'm just not as excited about this signing as so many of you appear to be. Honestly, I hope he has a monster year and makes me eat crow.
Well, we all loved him for many years here.

Last year he had 10 TFLs. One single time in his entire career has he had more.
Last year he had 6 Sacks. ZERO times in his entire career has he had more.

Bobby's last few years here he played in one of the stupidest defensive schemes I have ever in my life witnessed....not run by Jimmy Lake. Ken Norton should have been forced to walk the earth for a year with a dunce cap on, and Pete Carroll should have issued a public apology once a month for three years for allowing it.

Never before, IMO, has a player left a Seahawk defense and been more reborn than Bobby. Usually? They get exposed. Byron Maxwell comes to mind. Bruce Irvin to a lesser degree. There is a reason both of those players came back. Norton was a dumbass, and his defense was a fucking eye sore. Can you imagine if we took that pathetic front seven from last year and let Ken Norton coach um up?

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Donn Beach
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by Donn Beach » Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:17 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:25 pm
If you adjust for the systems they played in and the quality of players around them you should probably add at least 10 to Brook's score and subtract 10 from Bobby's.
Except the Ram defense was nearly as bad as the Hawks

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:16 pm

He had Aaron Donald in front of him most of the season thiugh didn't he?

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douche
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by douche » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:20 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:06 pm
douche wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:55 pm

Lots of tackles, but how many of those come after first down yardage has already been attained? In addition, I think he's physically a step slower than the younger guys. SEA has this historical tradition of signing players past their prime, after the tread has started to come off.

But perhaps his ability to mentor and lead by example can help bridge the rest of the group.

I'm just not as excited about this signing as so many of you appear to be. Honestly, I hope he has a monster year and makes me eat crow.
Well, we all loved him for many years here.

Last year he had 10 TFLs. One single time in his entire career has he had more.
Last year he had 6 Sacks. ZERO times in his entire career has he had more.

Bobby's last few years here he played in one of the stupidest defensive schemes I have ever in my life witnessed....not run by Jimmy Lake. Ken Norton should have been forced to walk the earth for a year with a dunce cap on, and Pete Carroll should have issued a public apology once a month for three years for allowing it.

Never before, IMO, has a player left a Seahawk defense and been more reborn than Bobby. Usually? They get exposed. Byron Maxwell comes to mind. Bruce Irvin to a lesser degree. There is a reason both of those players came back. Norton was a dumbass, and his defense was a fucking eye sore. Can you imagine if we took that pathetic front seven from last year and let Ken Norton coach um up?
I suppose the question becomes... will Wagner excel in SEA minus Norton and surrounded by a different complement of players?

Michael K.
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by Michael K. » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:26 pm

douche wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:20 pm

I suppose the question becomes... will Wagner excel in SEA minus Norton and surrounded by a different complement of players?
100% the question. Hard to say. As has been mentioned, he won't have Donald in front of him, but he will have another ILB and not be on an island. Though, the way we played with KJ, it never felt like he was alone anyway. I'll be curious just how aggressive they play this year. I am hoping that just looking at the moves they have made both up front and at LB mean they plan on getting after it a bit more this year.

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:46 pm

I mean, if PFF's grading process only takes into account how well a player carries out their assignments independent of scheme or other players then how did Wagner go from a 72 with the Seahawks in '21 to a 90 with the Rams in '22? The difference in quality of opponent wouldn't account for it over a sample size of 17 games. Was he more motivated? Perhaps.

Michael K.
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by Michael K. » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:10 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:46 pm
I mean, if PFF's grading process only takes into account how well a player carries out their assignments independent of scheme or other players then how did Wagner go from a 72 with the Seahawks in '21 to a 90 with the Rams in '22? The difference in quality of opponent wouldn't account for it over a sample size of 17 games. Was he more motivated? Perhaps.
Good point. I would argue that he was allowed to play with more freedom, and attack more...but that would just be the style, correct? I think it is a pretty good proof point that there is no way for PFF to actually know what a players assignment was, or if he did his job. The LBs job could be to fill the B gap, and the RB goes through the C gap, and it looks like the LB screwed up. It is a very inexact science, but still has a purpose, IMO.

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D-train
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by D-train » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:23 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:46 pm
I mean, if PFF's grading process only takes into account how well a player carries out their assignments independent of scheme or other players then how did Wagner go from a 72 with the Seahawks in '21 to a 90 with the Rams in '22? The difference in quality of opponent wouldn't account for it over a sample size of 17 games. Was he more motivated? Perhaps.
Yay, even if 72 is the floor, he is way better than our two Dolts were last year.
dt

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Donn Beach
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by Donn Beach » Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:16 pm
He had Aaron Donald in front of him most of the season thiugh didn't he?
Donald missed six games last season, had 49 tackles and five sacks

SeattleAddict
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Re: He’s back!!!

Post by SeattleAddict » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:51 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:46 pm
I mean, if PFF's grading process only takes into account how well a player carries out their assignments independent of scheme or other players then how did Wagner go from a 72 with the Seahawks in '21 to a 90 with the Rams in '22? The difference in quality of opponent wouldn't account for it over a sample size of 17 games. Was he more motivated? Perhaps.
quality of opponent wouldn't factor in for a MLB, as they're not typically matched up with any particular guy. That is much more of a factor for linemen and CBs.

As for Bobby's score, I think it can be summarized: When Bobby is allowed to flow and react with freedom, he makes plays and gets a high score. When he's held back by an idiotic scheme and coach, he sometimes looks like he's out of position so gets graded lower.

He was definitely more motivated against the Seahawks, though. He looked like a one-man wrecking crew those games.

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