Jalen Carter is not that good.

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Captain 97
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Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by Captain 97 » Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:29 pm

I don't get the hype on this guy at all. I have watched his career high light real and he has a few good plays as anyone would have in a high light real but there is nothing that just jumps off the screen and says "this guy is a game wrecker". The stats just aren't there either like you would expect from somebody who is projected as a top 5 pick. If I am picking a player at 5, I would expect them to be an all pro caliber player. Here is a look at all of the All-Pro Defensive tackles over the last 10 years and what they did in their final year of college compared to what Carter did.

Ndamukong Suh 85 tackles, 20.5 tackles for Loss, 12 sacks
Deforest Buckner 83 tackles, 17 tackles for loss, 10.5 sacks
Quinnen williams 71 tackles, 19.5 tackles for loss, 8 sacks
Snacks Harrison 60 tackles, 8.5 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks
AAron Donald 59 tackles, 28.5 tackles for loss, 11 sacks
Fletcher Cox 56 tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss, 5 sacks
Cameron Heyward 48 tackles, 13 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks
Chris Jones 44 tackles, 7.5 tackles for loss, 2.5 sacks
Geno Atkins 36 tackles, 10 tackles for loss, 3 sacks
Gerald McCoy 34 tackles, 15.5 tackles for loss, 6 sacks
Marcell Dareus 33 tackles, 11 tackles for loss, 4.5 sacks
Jalen Carter 32 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 3 sacks

The average stats for the all-pros in their final college season was 55.3 tackles, 15 tackles for loss and 6.3 Sacks. That is pretty much double the production that Carter had.

I don't see it on tape and I don't see it in the numbers. Can anybody tell me what exactly it is about this guy that has everyone excited.

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D-train
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Location: Quincy, MA

Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by D-train » Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:35 pm

Captain 97 wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:29 pm
I don't get the hype on this guy at all. I have watched his career high light real and he has a few good plays as anyone would have in a high light real but there is nothing that just jumps off the screen and says "this guy is a game wrecker". The stats just aren't there either like you would expect from somebody who is projected as a top 5 pick. If I am picking a player at 5, I would expect them to be an all pro caliber player. Here is a look at all of the All-Pro Defensive tackles over the last 10 years and what they did in their final year of college compared to what Carter did.

Ndamukong Suh 85 tackles, 20.5 tackles for Loss, 12 sacks
Deforest Buckner 83 tackles, 17 tackles for loss, 10.5 sacks
Quinnen williams 71 tackles, 19.5 tackles for loss, 8 sacks
Snacks Harrison 60 tackles, 8.5 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks
AAron Donald 59 tackles, 28.5 tackles for loss, 11 sacks
Fletcher Cox 56 tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss, 5 sacks
Cameron Heyward 48 tackles, 13 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks
Chris Jones 44 tackles, 7.5 tackles for loss, 2.5 sacks
Geno Atkins 36 tackles, 10 tackles for loss, 3 sacks
Gerald McCoy 34 tackles, 15.5 tackles for loss, 6 sacks
Marcell Dareus 33 tackles, 11 tackles for loss, 4.5 sacks
Jalen Carter 32 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 3 sacks

The average stats for the all-pros in their final college season was 55.3 tackles, 15 tackles for loss and 6.3 Sacks. That is pretty much double the production that Carter had.

I don't see it on tape and I don't see it in the numbers. Can anybody tell me what exactly it is about this guy that has everyone excited.
Sure but I have read he is a model citizen, really smart, intensely driven and genuinely a very nice young man. :)
dt

Michael K.
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Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by Michael K. » Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:47 pm

I said it way before there was word that he was a race car driving lazy dude. Why are his numbers so low. Everyone says that he is eating up all the double teams, blowing up plays without making the tackle, etc. I am not going to break down his entire film, but when guys kept saying we have to draft the next Aaron Donald, I posted both their stats. NOTHING CLOSE. Donald had a season that was better than Carter's career. Not to mention, the quote everyone went nuts about was one scout saying he was the best SINCE Aaron Donald. Not the NEXT Aaron Donald

SeattleAddict
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Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:25 pm

Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by SeattleAddict » Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:10 pm

You all lose me when you say "I've watched the highlights" or "I looked at the stats" when evaluating a player. Highlights don't tell the tale, neither do stats. Watch game film - an interior d-lineman won't generate huge numbers, but a good one will disrupt the play, collapse the pocket, make the QB move from his spot, take up defenders, fill gaps, etc.

Jalen Carter can play football. Say he's an idiot that makes bad decisions, maybe he's lazy, maybe he's out of shape, but as far as FOOTBALL PLAYING, he is absolutely the real deal. The next Aaron Donald? I don't think there is such a thing. Aaron Donald is one of the best players the league has ever seen, and just happens to play the same position. He's a unicorn, and that isn't a fair bar.

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douche
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Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by douche » Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:12 pm

Captain 97 wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:29 pm
Jalen Carter 32 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 3 sacks
And 2 forced fumbles :D

Donald had 4 FF in his last college season and Suh had none. As did Buckner.

But SeattleAddict is right... using Donald as the yardstick isn't really fair.

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Cascade Kid
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Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by Cascade Kid » Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:42 pm

It has been widely known that Carter sprained his ankle against Oregon in the first game of the season and it hindered him several games afterward.

First 6 games
6 Tkls
0 TFLs
0 Sacks
0 FF

Last 7 games
26 Tkls
7 TFLs
3 Sacks
2 FF

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Cascade Kid
Posts: 874
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Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by Cascade Kid » Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:54 pm

Cascade Kid wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:42 pm
It has been widely known that Carter sprained his ankle against Oregon in the first game of the season and it hindered him several games afterward.

First 6 games
6 Tkls
0 TFLs
0 Sacks
0 FF

Last 7 games
26 Tkls
7 TFLs
3 Sacks
2 FF
In a 5 game span
23 Tkls
7 TFLs
3 Sacks
2 FF

Seems pretty elite to me. I question if he can remain elite in the NFL with the behavior and conditioning patterns we are seeing out of him. That's a shit load of risk at #5 for a DT. I'd be more at ease taking on risk if we were talking about a QB with elite tools.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:36 pm

He also suffered a sprained medial collateral ligament, missed two weeks but played well the last four games of the season

SeattleAddict
Posts: 3725
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:25 pm

Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by SeattleAddict » Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:17 am

Cascade Kid wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:54 pm
Cascade Kid wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:42 pm
It has been widely known that Carter sprained his ankle against Oregon in the first game of the season and it hindered him several games afterward.

First 6 games
6 Tkls
0 TFLs
0 Sacks
0 FF

Last 7 games
26 Tkls
7 TFLs
3 Sacks
2 FF
In a 5 game span
23 Tkls
7 TFLs
3 Sacks
2 FF

Seems pretty elite to me. I question if he can remain elite in the NFL with the behavior and conditioning patterns we are seeing out of him. That's a shit load of risk at #5 for a DT. I'd be more at ease taking on risk if we were talking about a QB with elite tools.
This is good info, and why I keep saying stats lie... especially when looked at without context. It's pretty damn clear he wasn't right the first half of the season, yet he played. That also belies the lazy narrative, and being 300+ lbs on a bad wheel can really screw with conditioning, too.

The reckless driving and 9 extra lbs are huge issues, but most of the rest is just fake news. If his mind wasn't permanently fucked by causing his friends' deaths, he will be a damn good pro... although he may well Haynesworth out of the league at some point.

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ddraig
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Re: Jalen Carter is not that good.

Post by ddraig » Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:37 am

I didn't see it mentioned above, but I may have missed it. Carter was consistently double teamed. That allowed for his D-Line teammates, who were very good, to get free and make plays. There is something to be said for a guy who causes the other team to double and triple team him. There had to be a reason.

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