Cliff Avril talks D-Line

[SeattleAddict]

“A lot of times in what I talked about with him, his job is kind of a nose tackle - - to eat up blocks. So a lot of times when you see him or the defense playing well, you see [Cole] Holcomb or [Jamin] Davis being able to shoot their gaps because Payne is eating blocks. So for our system, if you are taking on a double-team and just holding the double-team, you are a zero [grade] for us.” Akridge has argued to PFF that stalemating double teams should be graded positively, but their grading system has not adjusted for that.

[/quote]

if you require two people to block you, you are winning. PFF is a joke, especially for linemen. It might be slightly more useful for QBs and RBs where you can kinda tell if they do well or fuck up most of the time, but still just slightly better than a joke.

Side note: the best defenses against the run last year didn't have big NTs. It seems this is what the Seahawks are going for. All fine and good for most of the game, but those goalline situations and 4th and 1s are gonna suck when every o-lineman outweighs every d-lineman by 40 lbs.

[D-train]

“A lot of times in what I talked about with him, his job is kind of a nose tackle - - to eat up blocks. So a lot of times when you see him or the defense playing well, you see [Cole] Holcomb or [Jamin] Davis being able to shoot their gaps because Payne is eating blocks. So for our system, if you are taking on a double-team and just holding the double-team, you are a zero [grade] for us.” Akridge has argued to PFF that stalemating double teams should be graded positively, but their grading system has not adjusted for that.

if you require two people to block you, you are winning. PFF is a joke, especially for linemen. It might be slightly more useful for QBs and RBs where you can kinda tell if they do well or fuck up most of the time, but still just slightly better than a joke.

Side note: the best defenses against the run last year didn't have big NTs. It seems this is what the Seahawks are going for. All fine and good for most of the game, but those goalline situations and 4th and 1s are gonna suck when every o-lineman outweighs every d-lineman by 40 lbs.
[/quote]

Its literally the opposite. We can all just look at stats for QBs RBs and WRs. I don't even know who linemen are on other teams let alone how good they are. I have no life but I am still not willing to watch 1000 hours of film a week to rate them. Just because Donn Beach unearthed one flaw doesn't mean the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater.

Nobody is saying it is perfect but there might be a reason they are currently the industry standard in player ratings and pulled in millions in revenue last year. How much did SAF make with your ratings???

[Donn Beach]

The problem is when do you apply the flaw and how lol flaws are there? You have a lineman with a 59 grade, how do you know they have valued him properly? How do you interpret the number of another player after they have been wrong about it

[Sexymarinersfan]

I’m still confused as hell about the defense, who lines up where and when. Does this look accurate based on who we have on the roster?

5T/3T: Dre’mont Jones, Jarran Reed, Mario Edwards, Myles Adams, Mike Morris
NT: Cameron Young, Robert Cooper (UDFA), Bryan Mone (IR)
LEO: Darrell Taylor, Derrick Hall, Alton Robinson
LB: Uchenna Nwosu, Boye Mafe, Tyreke Smith

I saw Boye Mafe and Tyreke Smith do 1v1’s in person up close at Senior Bowl practice and I don’t think they are the same kind of athlete. Tyreke has been compared to Cliff Avril and even trained with him before we drafted him. That’s what they think he can become.

Boye Mafe, he totally reminded me of Von Miller. He’s an EDGE, but more of linebacker than a defensive end. Tyreke could be a LEO or maybe a 5-Tech. I kind of like Mafe on the weakside where they had him last year, just with more playing time.

[auroraave]

“A lot of times in what I talked about with him, his job is kind of a nose tackle - - to eat up blocks. So a lot of times when you see him or the defense playing well, you see [Cole] Holcomb or [Jamin] Davis being able to shoot their gaps because Payne is eating blocks. So for our system, if you are taking on a double-team and just holding the double-team, you are a zero [grade] for us.” Akridge has argued to PFF that stalemating double teams should be graded positively, but their grading system has not adjusted for that.

if you require two people to block you, you are winning. PFF is a joke, especially for linemen. It might be slightly more useful for QBs and RBs where you can kinda tell if they do well or fuck up most of the time, but still just slightly better than a joke.

Side note: the best defenses against the run last year didn't have big NTs. It seems this is what the Seahawks are going for. All fine and good for most of the game, but those goalline situations and 4th and 1s are gonna suck when every o-lineman outweighs every d-lineman by 40 lbs.

Its literally the opposite. We can all just look at stats for QBs RBs and WRs. I don't even know who linemen are on other teams let alone how good they are. I have no life but I am still not willing to watch 1000 hours of film a week to rate them. Just because Donn Beach unearthed one flaw doesn't mean the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater.

Nobody is saying it is perfect but there might be a reason they are currently the industry standard in player ratings and pulled in millions in revenue last year. How much did SAF make with your ratings???
[/quote]

This argument does not hold water. You are not supporting PFF because you believe they are accurate, you are supporting them because you choose to post them all the time for your own confirmation bias. Therefore, you are forced to support them, or you invalidate your own positions. Your refusal to watch tape or educate yourself does not make PFF accurate or correct - and hiding behind them for your positions, validates neither. You are choosing not to get more educated on the intracies of the game - that is totally your prerogative - but admitting you don't know and then using PFF as your proxy holds no merit. "I don't know, but PFF says..." is not a valid argument. Your not knowing - is on you. And suggesting PFF is the 'industry standard" is based on what? Your opinion? I know people in sports - a lot of them - and NONE use PFF. You think JS/PC are roster building based on PFF? C'mon. I 100% support your right to use it and post it and do whatever you want - but selling it the way you do because you need it to validate your positions that you refuse to educate yourself on - is a hollow argument at best. You are arguing in a circle and just expecting us to say "oh, okay!" and it's insulting to peoples' intelligence. The best conversations are between people that are educated on a subject. Elevating your knowledge make's discourse better for everyone - we can all learn more from it. I'm not trying to be a dick here - it just comes naturally - but I feel the need to point out the emptiness in your argument, respectfully.

[D-train]

Point well taken Jeff and I appreciate the tone and respectful nature of the reply.

I saw this a couple hours ago. I sure hope PFF didn't know wtf it was doing last season on our big FA signing! lol

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/dremont-jones/28075

[D-train]

This seems like pretty solid validation of their credibility. Clearly far from perfect but they wouldn't have 100% market penetration in the NFL if it was worthless or even bad data.

As of 2021, PFF provides customized data to all 32 NFL teams, 102 NCAA FBS teams, 7 CFL teams, national/regional media (e.g., The Washington Post, The Athletic, ESPN) and sports agencies/agents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Footb ... 20provides,)%20and%20sports%20agencies%2Fagents.

[D-train]

Fair Balance:

Criticism
PFF has been criticized by the analytics community regarding the accuracy and veracity of its ratings.[11] In contrast to the purely quantitative ratings released by sources such as Football Outsiders, TeamRankings, and numberFire, PFF uses qualitative and opinion-based grading as the root of its 0–100 Player Grades – not its advanced statistics. As such, the 0–100 Player Grades are not truly quantitative and could be seen as being prone to bias, poor sample sizing, or other issues.

[Donn Beach]

This seems like pretty solid validation of their credibility. Clearly far from perfect but they wouldn't have 100% market penetration in the NFL if it was worthless or even bad data.

As of 2021, PFF provides customized data to all 32 NFL teams, 102 NCAA FBS teams, 7 CFL teams, national/regional media (e.g., The Washington Post, The Athletic, ESPN) and sports agencies/agents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Footb ... 20provides,)%20and%20sports%20agencies%2Fagents.

Customized data.... that sounds different from their grading system they supply fans. I'll guess teams ask for certain pieces of information to be broken out what's collected, but I doubt they have much use for the grading system. I'm gonna guess teams have their own in house grading systems

[D-train]

This seems like pretty solid validation of their credibility. Clearly far from perfect but they wouldn't have 100% market penetration in the NFL if it was worthless or even bad data.

As of 2021, PFF provides customized data to all 32 NFL teams, 102 NCAA FBS teams, 7 CFL teams, national/regional media (e.g., The Washington Post, The Athletic, ESPN) and sports agencies/agents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Footb ... 20provides,)%20and%20sports%20agencies%2Fagents.

Customized data.... that sounds different from their grading system they supply fans. I'll guess teams ask for certain pieces of information to be broken out what's collected, but I doubt they have much use for the grading system. I'm gonna guess teams have their own in house grading systems

So they have a team of brilliant football experts working on stuff for the NFL teams and room full of Baboons creating the website content?

Not saying any of their analysts are geniuses and football experts but with training and getting paid to do a job and I assume taking pride in it like most humans and watching thousands of plays ever year I don't have any reason to believe they would be worse than any of the football geniuses here.