Draft Day 2 Thread

[D-train]

Probably will be too late when we pick so I will have to read about it tomorrow. lol

[D-train]

BB Comedy routine. Who knew?

[seattlefan-daBronx]

BB Comedy routine. Who knew?

Amazing what time off from a stressful job can do to a man! Good for you Bill.

[D-train]

[D-train]

Have any more Huskies gone?

[Sexymarinersfan]

Have any more Huskies gone?

WR Ja'Lynn Polk just went off the board to the Patriots. Solid pick for Drake Maye!

[D-train]

Have any more Huskies gone?

WR Ja'Lynn Polk just went off the board to the Patriots. Solid pick for Drake Maye!

Nice. Thanks!

[maoling]

Funny, I haven't seen anyone among the hundreds of thousands attending in Detroit, take a knee against America, wave "Go Hamas" signs, chant a bunch of inflammatory political crap or misbehave in any way, except to boo the Cowboys, which I support.

How refreshing.

Football is good clean fun again. This is why I like the NFL Draft.

[rockycola]

Funny, I haven't seen anyone among the hundreds of thousands attending in Detroit, take a knee against America, wave "Go Hamas" signs, chant a bunch of inflammatory political crap or misbehave in any way, except to boo the Cowboys, which I support.

How refreshing.

Football is good clean fun again. This is why I like the NFL Draft.

I took a knee today.....walked up 3 flights of stairs and kneeled to catch my breath.

[Donn Beach]

BB Comedy routine. Who knew?

Depends on if he was interested in the question. Here is a response to a reporter asking him about long snappers, is it worth carrying one on the roster. Why not cross train a player to do it

Bill: "Yeah, well you know, uh, Ben, it's an interesting conversation and one that's really, um, uh, I would say honestly during the course of my coaching career has kind of travelled that, that long and winding road from, when I came into the league.
Uh, well first of all there were no long snappers, but the specialists -- the kickers and the punters -- were frequently position players. And that's where they came from in college as well. So a lot of the good college punters and place kickers also played a position. And then, as time evolved, you know, starting with like Gogolak and guys like that, you know, they specialized in kicking. And then you had, you know, some of the punters that specialized in punting. So, players like Danny White and Tom Tupa and guys like that who were, you know, very good position players, became, Gino Cappaletti.
You know that evolved into specialists because of -- I would say the importance of the kicking game and the number of, you know, the number of plays that the kicking game and opportunities that it provided. Same thing with returners. There were very few just pure returners.
I think the long snapping, to me, changed in the mid 80s. And really the key guy in that was DeOssie, in my opinion, because, uh, Steve [DeOssie] was the first center that really truly allowed a spread punt formation against the all-out rush. Prior to that teams would generally pull -- well, first of all there wasn't that many gunners [a player who lines up near the sideline with the goal of moving downfield as fast as possible to eventually tackle the punt returner.] But when teams started using gunners, they would pull one in and kick away from the free guy on the backside. And that was kind of the idea of the protection -- was not to let the snapper block against a nine-man rush with a split player. So the return team would have one guy on the the gunner that split, one guy returning, so you got nine guys rushing against, um, essentially, you know, the punter, who wasn't a blocker, the split guy, who wasn't a blocker, and the snapper, who really wasn't a blocker. So it was nine on eight, and the idea was to block the most dangerous eight ... and let the ninth guy go and punt away from him.
And then, when the Cowboys went to the spread punt and the Cardinals followed that pretty quickly and they kept two gunners split and the snapper blocked a guy, uh, then that created an eight on eight situation, but put a lot of pressure on the snapper to you know deliver the ball 15 yards deep on the money and still block a good rusher, you know, offset in the A-gap. I mean, we've all seen offensive linemen have trouble making that block on a pass play. And so now you're talking about a deep snap and a block.
But, as players got better at that, and that skill became more - I would say - players became more efficient at that, then you know teams decided to carry a long snapper rather than worry about getting a punt block. Plus, there was also the level of consistency and durability with those players. So, if you lose a position player, who's also a long snapper, you know, you're looking at some, some real problems. And that evolved into the punters, for the most part, becoming holders, because the amount of time that they could spend with the kickers versus having a wide receiver or quarterback be the holder -- which, again, you don't see very much of that anymore -- assuming the punter is, you know, capable and good enough, has good enough hands, to be the holder.
And so then that kind of whole unit has really evolved into, you know a specified snapper, a specified kicker, a specific punter, and generally the punter as the holder so the three of those guys could work together all practice because they're all available.
And I know, again, going back to when I first came into the league, you worked on, you know, field goals, and I mean it was maybe five minutes, because that was the only time the starting center and the starting receiver or backup quarterback or whatever were available to practice that.
So, like, is it that hard?
Um, it's a pretty hard job, yeah. It's a pretty hard job. It's not as hard as it used to be because you're not allowed to hit the center, especially on field goals, and, you know, run them over. And there are some limitations on the punt rush based on, you know, what the formation is and so forth. Generally speaking. But it's still a hard block. And I think you see most punt rushers attack the snapper. So they loop guys back so the center thinks he's going right but then he has to come back to the left. Or maybe they fake like they're coming back but they don't come back. So he not only has to snap. And so then that gets into whether you're a blind snapper and you look at the rush and just snap the ball, or whether you're a look-back snapper and snap it and then after the snap you have to look up and recognize what's happened and then make the proper block.
But again, it's it's man-to-man blocking.

Like that guy's got to block somebody or you're a guy short.

So, it is it is a hard job.
And the accuracy of the place kickers through the years which has gone up dramatically. Part of that's the surface. Part of that's, you know, not kicking outdoors and so forth. And part of it is the operation between the snapper, the holder, and the kicker, which I would say, generally speaking, is at a pretty high level.

Which it should be.

In the National Football League.
So, I think if you go back and look at, you know, kicks from, back when that wasn't the case, you know, you see balls rolling back, and the holder coming out of a stance to catch the ball. The kind of things you see sometimes in a high school game and that kind of thing. There's just a much higher level of skill -- which there should be. But, yeah, I think it's a pretty tough position. And nobody knows or cares who the snapper is until there is a bad snap and all of a sudden it's a front page story.
So, you know, there's a decent amount of pressure on that player as well, not just the snap, but also, as I said, to block and punt protection.
So, as the roster sizes have increased it's been a lot easier to carry that player, just like it's a lot easier to carry a true returner. And so, in terms of depth and availability, um, you know, you really don't want to be looking for one of those players in the middle of any time. In the middle of a game or in the middle of a season. But when you have him as, you know, a starting receiver or starting, you know -- Luke Rosa, starting tackle, or whoever, those guys -- and they're playing and something happens, not only do you lose a player but you lose a key specialist as well.
So, yeah. I mean, it's a great question. There would be so much value in a player that could do a couple of things and save a roster spot. But I would say there are so few of those players available, even to the point where, and, you know, Amendola did a great job last week, but it's so rare that you even see a combination punter and placekicker. Usually it's it's one or the other. And I think part of that is, you know, at one level it's, I'll say, relatively easy to put your foot on the ball. But at this level, you know, the difference in kicking mechanics and punting mechanics are are so different that it's really hard to be good at both.
But, you know, if a guy's got a good leg and he's a good athlete and makes good contact with the ball, there's a point where, you know, high school, college, you know... maybe it's good enough. Maybe he's the best guy on the team to do that. But I'd say at this level that would be asking a lot. Now, you know, like, Jake can punt, Jake can kick off, you know, Jake can kick field goals [but] to be at the kind of level you want it to be at to have the person split their time between the two of those, again, I think is, you know, it’s a lot to ask. It's not -- I'm not saying it's impossible or unheard of, but it's a lot to ask and that's why you don't see it very much.
That's a good question. It's really interesting and I'd say if you look at the evolution of those positions over the last -- since I've been in the league -- but even a little bit before then because that's really where it started to go was was in the late 60s and I think Gogalak was the first, or one of the first, where that trend really started to say 'Okay, we're just going to keep a guy and all he does is kick' ... and that's, that's like all they did, that was, that was a little bit unusual, but, you know, gradually, that's become the new norm