Mariner Talk Chat Forum

The PAC stands at 7 football schools + Gonzaga. I have watched some big games and the pageantry and spectacle associated with them. I think Part of the spectacle is the stadium size Penn. State recently hosted it's White out game vs UW. The Ohio State game a few weeks ago had an attendance of over 111,000 people! You think of the old PAC 12 teams that had a shot at the show and I think of 4+/- teams that had a shot at a Natty. My criteria being a big stadium, funding, and a city to support the big crowds. My 4 was UW, OU, USC, and UCLA. UO makes it because of Uncle Phil's $ but they only have a 55K capacity at their stadium. LA, and Seattle are big towns and 70K capacity at Husky stadium and the LA schools with over 92K at the rose bowl and near 80K at LA Memorial coliseum are schools and stadiums that fit the spectacle criteria. The other part of the spectacle is the branding. USC had the Trojan mounted on the horse and that is one of the most recognized "brand" in college football. Other Branding images include the Colorado Buffalo, The Long horns "Bevo", FSU' mounted Osceola and Renegade, Penn State's White-out game etc.

So, my targets are going to be from conferences that are not in a better position than the current PAC: No (SEC, ACC, BIG 10, Big 12). But have a big stadium and a market to support it and bring in the TV's and media rights.
The 1st has expressed interest to join but has the travel time issue and that is Hawaii. That is a long trip Boise to Hawaii is 2800 miles which is about as long as Boise to Miami. I think adding Hawaii might help recruiting for all member schools as it would provide a "destination" location to travel to. (Honolulu is the 55th largest market)

#2 is an independent Notre Dame has their own deal to be broadcast every game. The PAC 12 would just be giving them a full share for the brand recognition and their 78K stadium. One more selling point I'd like to introduce is the possible rotation into South bend along with these other destination venues of the PAC XX title game. (South Bend is the 163rd largest market) I know that they receive 17M from the ACC we would have to beat that for their non independent money.

#3 is another destination city and Bowl game site. New Orleans and Tulane (N.O. is # 58)
#4 gets us into Florida, (Tampa St. Pete is #17)
#5 UMass gets you another independent but also has a strong basketball program. (Boston #11)
#6 UNLV and another destination city
# 7-10 are all in Texas which would put the PAC in 4 large markets Dalles is #4, Houston #5, El Paso #68, San Antonio is #24 and they are in the 2nd largest state.
#11&12 Cal, and Stanford if the ACC folds/ there is talk coming from the big three Clemson, FSU, and Miami crying about the media contract hey just signed. Maybe a chance to get two former members back. (Bay area #13)
13. A S.W.A.C. school a nice geographical location to team with the other Gulf-Atlantic league of the PAC Jackson = #93)
14. Utah Utes (I know, I said no Power-4 conference targets, but this one came out after their A.D. said he didn't like the BIG 12 after a somewhat cheesy call went against them vs BYU (#46 Market size)
15. UConn, it might be nice to pair with ND, and Umass and another good basketball school (#51)
16. N.M. State the #23 market and pairs well with those gulf region schools
17. Tulsa a good basketball program and decent football school to pair with those central schools C. USA (#54 market)
18. Memphis (Tennessee) behind Notre Dame this is another premium brand especially in basketball (#45 market)

19. Sac. State another big California city market it is a top market (#28) and the capitol. I would really push them to up the budget. It sounds like they want to build something toward to lower end of current PAC 12 stadiums but you could see them build a huge stadium something in that 100K range capacity. That city only has the Kings but no NFL or MLB teams. (I know they have the A's temporarily) but this market could develop into a huge football school.

20. Wichita State had a 24K stadium that they began to demolish last year. They have not played football for nearly 3 decades. Maybe they join as a B-Ball only school for now. Kind of the Gonzaga of the East. Their MSA is 650K #90 largest market right in the neighborhood of Spokane. The idea here is that they could re-up with football at some point even with considering they are one of the smaller budget schools.

1. Hawaii 50K+ students, Stadium 50K + Aloha Stadium (Market Hawaii)
2. ND Fighting Irish 13K students, 68K capacity at Notre Dame Stadium (Indiana)
3. Tulane (AAC)14K students 73K Superdome and an on campus is a 30K capacity stadium (New Orleans)
4. S. Florida Bulls (AAC) 49K students 69K Raymond James Stadium (Tampa Bay)
5. UMASS: 75K students stadium part-time is Gillette stadium 66K, on-campus is only 17K
6. UNLV 31K students 65K stadium revisit
7, UTEP Sun Bowl 52K (El Paso)
8. UTSA Alamo Dome 64K, (San Antonio),
9. Rice 47K (Houston)
10. North-Texas (Dalles) 31K but if demand went up there is larger venues in the region for use.
11. Cal 63K stadium capacity
12. Stanford 50k stadium capacity
13. Jackson State (Jackson Miss.) 61K stadium capacity
14. Utah Utes Rice Eckels Stadium 52K capacity
15. UConn Independent 43K stadium capacity
16. NM State Las Cruces/ El Paso metro is the #23rd largest in the USA
17. Tulsa 30K stadium capacity
18. Memphis 59K stadium capacity
19. Sac State 23K stadium capacity
20. Wichita State 24K current but that stadium had a capacity of 30K but they have not played football for nearly 3 decades. Maybe, they join as a B-Ball only school for now.

Current PAC 12 venues
1. Colorado St. 77K capacity at Mile High for their rivalry game with the Buffalos 43K on-campus
2. Fresno State 41K
3. Boise State 37K
4. Oregon State 36K
5. San Diego State 35K
6. WSU 33K
7. Utah State 26K


Adding Gonzaga as a basketball power could help tilt schools with high-end basketball programs in this direction like Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane. Allowing Notre Dame to keep its independent Football TV revenue while taking a full share of the conference market is a bribe I am willing to pay.

Ideally PAC Atlantic-Gulf
1. Notre Dame
2. Memphis
3. Tulsa
4. U. Conn
5. UMass
6. SFU
7. Tulane
8. UTEP
9. UTSA
10. Rice
11. Wichita State (Basketball only)

PAC West: Current 7 + Gonzaga and:
1. Hawaii
2. Sac. State
3,4,5 eventually Utah, Cal, Stanford

Notre Dame isn't joining the pac 12

Donn Beach wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 17, 2024 8:52 am

Notre Dame isn't joining the pac 12

+-

They joined the ACC. All you have to do is beat what other conferences offer them.

But, I sign off on admitting the Irish would be the hardest sell. The point being is that there are a number of premium basketball brands available. The PAC XX could position itself as a premium basketball conference.

The new PAC XX could develop the brand. San Diego State Aztecs for example.
The Aztec, Plays up the Mezo-America angle. Bring your Aztec death Whistles.
The city of San Diego only has the Padres as a big "4" franchise and is the # 18 largest market in the USA. They can support a major college football program and venue. They could build a 100K seat stadium and fill it.

UTEP has the Sun Bowl. It is a 50K+ stadium in a picturesque setting carved right into a mountain. Grab these schools promote them by investing from the league coffers and a shared vision of elevating the league by building the brand and the infrastructure.

There is plenty of money out there for the PAC 12. Even without ND you can create the need and develop your market.

The message is "get big"

Target big markets and stadiums. Hawaii, UTEP, UTSA, etc.
Develop current markets to full potential (SDSU, Utah St., etc)

Develop the Branding. Get creative.
The Aztec death whistle cheer would be an example.
The Sun Bowl is self-promoting, deal done.
Boise State's stadium is on the smallish side, but the blue field is a unique site. Boise State is an excellent opportunity to grow. They are the # 74 market but are not the home of any of the big 4 franchises. That = a lot of money and interest in the college sports scene. And on the baseball side you could see a partnership to build a premium baseball venue with the MILB team there. And eventually expand that stadium or build a new one.


Open up the playing field to compete with the SEC, and BIG by design. Build the stadiums, build the brands, create the spectacle.

Build it and they will come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZdiAb_HAjg

Those dudes say a deal is close for the PAC XX

I see an agreement that went something like this: As configured: 9M per school each year. Add the AAC 4 = 14M per.
Take the head off of conference USA
UTEP Sun Bowl, big market, #68
Liberty U, Students # = 95K, Lynchburg Va is only the 180th ranked market and only has a 25K capacity football stadium. They are well funded with a 1.7 billion $ endowment.
FIU is in the Miami market #9, they have near 60K students, and has plans to build a 45K seat stadium (current cap is around
N.M. State stadium about 30K, students 22 K, but their endowment is only 236M #68 market. (Maybe you only take 3)


I imagine that a negotiation may have taken place with the AAC schools they want:(Memphis, Tulane, UTSA, USF). Maybe they said come back to us when you have a concrete deal and the legal battle ironed out.

You are missing a huge part of the problem with the schools you are mentioning - no one cares about them - no one is going to tune in to watch New Mexico State, no one cares about Hawaii. These are all scrubs, bottom of the barrel, low markets. There is nothing to hype up. PAC 12 needs to concentrate on the best West Coast programs and scoop them up. I've never heard of Octagon. PAC 12 game are on the CW - who even gets that channel? Studios/broadcasters are in a major downsizing right now, there is not much money out there. This will be a low rent deal, likely embarrassingly low, because this is where supply meets demand - and demand for matchups between the schools you are floating will be very very low.

Smart move is to build the conference regionally, create rivalries, but you have to have the most competitive schools - again, NM state and Hawaii are absolute trash. Too bad they couldn't have kept Cal/Stan/AZ schools/Utah and built around that base, bring in OK state/Texas Tech.

College football is now about huge TV deals - and there simply is not going to be one to be had - the money simply is not there. Holding a press conference or leaking 'something big is coming' doesn't make it true. Having low end schools from all over the country doesn't make you look like a power conference, this is not going to be a power conference on any level - it's going to be also-rans - again, supply meets demand. Adding Hawaii, UTEP, and other absolute trash schools only makes it look worse. No one cares about those programs - no one. Who is rushing out to advertise on those games? They can still make a reasonably interesting conference with what's left of the west coast schools, but it is still going to be low rent, and no one is paying out big deals for that - especially in a marketplace already over saturated with the big dogs.

As a consumer, I don't even look for the husky games anymore - I could not possibly care less about 8 games back east, Rutgers? Indiana? Minnesota? Yawn. I think a lot of folks feel the same way. It really sucks for PAC 12 fans, but i'll never, ever care about these new iterations. Once you dump all your rivalries, you have lost the single biggest attraction to college football. UTEP vs Hawaii? That's the shit you are made to watch in prison.

auroraave wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:35 pm

You are missing a huge part of the problem with the schools you are mentioning - no one cares about them - no one is going to tune in to watch New Mexico State, no one cares about Hawaii. These are all scrubs, bottom of the barrel, low markets. There is nothing to hype up. PAC 12 needs to concentrate on the best West Coast programs and scoop them up. I've never heard of Octagon. PAC 12 game are on the CW - who even gets that channel? Studios/broadcasters are in a major downsizing right now, there is not much money out there. This will be a low rent deal, likely embarrassingly low, because this is where supply meets demand - and demand for matchups between the schools you are floating will be very very low.

Smart move is to build the conference regionally, create rivalries, but you have to have the most competitive schools - again, NM state and Hawaii are absolute trash. Too bad they couldn't have kept Cal/Stan/AZ schools/Utah and built around that base, bring in OK state/Texas Tech.

College football is now about huge TV deals - and there simply is not going to be one to be had - the money simply is not there. Holding a press conference or leaking 'something big is coming' doesn't make it true. Having low end schools from all over the country doesn't make you look like a power conference, this is not going to be a power conference on any level - it's going to be also-rans - again, supply meets demand. Adding Hawaii, UTEP, and other absolute trash schools only makes it look worse. No one cares about those programs - no one. Who is rushing out to advertise on those games? They can still make a reasonably interesting conference with what's left of the west coast schools, but it is still going to be low rent, and no one is paying out big deals for that - especially in a marketplace already over saturated with the big dogs.

As a consumer, I don't even look for the husky games anymore - I could not possibly care less about 8 games back east, Rutgers? Indiana? Minnesota? Yawn. I think a lot of folks feel the same way. It really sucks for PAC 12 fans, but i'll never, ever care about these new iterations. Once you dump all your rivalries, you have lost the single biggest attraction to college football. UTEP vs Hawaii? That's the shit you are made to watch in prison.

They both have 50K+ stadiums set in absolutely beautiful settings. The reason that UTEP is considered a shitty school is because it is in the lowly Conference USA and is not on TV, they don't have top coaches, and they don't demand the best recruits.
Bring them and the best brands from the AAC and you are representing a lot of the top US markets.

Create, Invest, Innovate, Enhance, and produce the spectacle. Create the show, it is that simple.

Another potential route would be to simply merge with the MW and their remaining schools the 7 original MW members and the incoming UTEP school that has agreed to join the MW. That eliminates the poaching fees and exit fees. And allows you to then go after the other non power 4 conferences with cash.

In addition add Sac State, and GCU.

Conference USA had UTEP in it in 2024, but I would go after Jackson State U. they have a 61K football stadium and is in Mississippi which would be a prime location for the Texas schools and the Eastern side of the PAC.

There is the AAC 4 or 5 teams Temple, Memphis, Tulane, etc.

There are plenty of teams out there that have draw power.