So much for the theory that the homeless problem is due to housing shortage

[ddraig]

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

I interpret this as The Founders stating that government is not antithetical to our rights. Government is the means to "secure" these rights.

Or is the Declaration of Independence just another manifestation of statism?

Perhaps my being brainwashed is showing.

I was actually going to spend an hour going over all of this dudes points just to prove him wrong. Then I realized that it wouldn't matter. Years ago we had it out about if everyone was 'the same' and no matter what I posted, he would disagree with. This dude is obtuse, stubborn and unable to understand any point that doesn't totally agree with his......a lot like the extreme political lines.
So I decided not to waste my time on him here.

The Declaration does not guarantee any rights. It is a Founding Document that enumerates the reasons for us seceeding from the Brits. Nothing more. The Constitution is our Founding Document. Far more important and legal.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

But the Bill of Rights does (often confused with the Constitution and/or D of I). It enumerates the rights that government "shall not infringe".

[D-train]

[ddraig]

The entire state of Washington has their minimum wage over $15 per hour.

My take on minimum wage... you raise it to help people, but it hurts the economy. Because now you have business owners who have to pay a higher minimum wage to employ staff. Basic math says that they need to raise their prices to cover that wage. Then people complain that everything costs so much. Or they stop shopping/dining out altogether and the small businesses simply go away. It's a sad cycle.

2 cents worth. Doesn't the minimum wage apply to full time employees? If you make $15 an hour, you make more than $31,000 a year.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

The entire state of Washington has their minimum wage over $15 per hour.

My take on minimum wage... you raise it to help people, but it hurts the economy. Because now you have business owners who have to pay a higher minimum wage to employ staff. Basic math says that they need to raise their prices to cover that wage. Then people complain that everything costs so much. Or they stop shopping/dining out altogether and the small businesses simply go away. It's a sad cycle.

2 cents worth. Doesn't the minimum wage apply to full time employees? If you make $15 an hour, you make more than $31,000 a year.

Minimum wage is set on age, not numbers of hours worked. Also, if a family member works for you, you don't have to pay them minimum wage.

Minimum wage starts at age 16.!!

[ddraig]

Not sure I agree that it is immoral for a 14 year old to sweep your parking lot. At 14, I was working at Longacres mucking stalls and hot walking horses. If the kid wants the money, why not? As long as it isn't the Costco Parking Lot, who cares?

You misread. I'm saying the same thing. I'm against anyone getting in the way of a voluntary agreement between two parties if there is no aggression being used toward anyone else. I don't care how old a worker is or what wage they agree to work for. It's their right to negotiate that contract, and I have no right to get in the way. Nor, does any so-called "representative" of mine. (Politicians represent their owners, not their constituents)

Child labor law is an obvious ploy to make families more dependent on government and get more kids into the indoctrination camps for 12 years. The government doesn't want the kids out their learning practical skills in the real world. They don't want them bringing home any money to help out their family.

Minimum wage makes it more difficult to get a business off the ground. It favors the mega corporations with their economies of scale. It can make it more difficult for a person to find work and start learning skills to advance their career.

There is no reason to mess with free trade. The idea that you can "regulate" a market via the guns of government and make it work better is a myth. There is just the free market, and the not free market. The free market always wins.

You also have to remember that with the child labor laws, you have unsupervised kids who could work if they want to but are out on the streets. I have a friend who just turned 16. His mom works, but it's a minimum wage job.
He was looking for work but couldn't get any at 15. To get spending money, he'd shoplift and then sell what he took.