My VP picks in order of preference

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Is saying that people who are childless should have less of a voice in our democracy an extreme position?

I'd say yes, it is an extreme position.

I personally believe that every citizen in this country is equal. Or at the very least SHOULD be equal. Unfortunately it isn't that way.
!!!!!!Illegals can kiss my ass!!!!!!

And yes, I know the MSM has already bent what Vance said to get the loonies to rebel against him. I'm so very glad you took the bait.

How did they bend what he said?

He literally believes that if you are childless, you should have less of a voice in our democracy. He made it very clear.

Here is the actual clip from 2021.
Nowhere does he say that childless people should have less say than people with children. He is questioning why [these certain] childless people have so much say with the children of this country. If they don't have children, how can they know or understand what a parent can go through?

I've felt this way since I had children of my own.


During Vance’s bid for the Senate in Ohio, he said in a Fox News interview that “we are effectively run in this country via the Democrats,” and referred to them as “a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they’ve made and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too.” He said that included Harris, U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat.

“How does it make any sense that we’ve turned our country over to people who don’t really have a direct stake in it?” asked Vance, who is now Donald Trump’s running mate. Harris became stepmother to two teenagers when she married entertainment lawyer Douglas Emhoff in 2014. And Buttigieg announced he and his husband adopted infant twins in September 2021, more than a month before Vance made those comments.

[Seattle or Bust]

I'd say yes, it is an extreme position.

I personally believe that every citizen in this country is equal. Or at the very least SHOULD be equal. Unfortunately it isn't that way.
!!!!!!Illegals can kiss my ass!!!!!!

And yes, I know the MSM has already bent what Vance said to get the loonies to rebel against him. I'm so very glad you took the bait.

How did they bend what he said?

He literally believes that if you are childless, you should have less of a voice in our democracy. He made it very clear.

Here is the actual clip from 2021.
Nowhere does he say that childless people should have less say than people with children. He is questioning why [these certain] childless people have so much say with the children of this country. If they don't have children, how can they know or understand what a parent can go through?

I've felt this way since I had children of my own.


During Vance’s bid for the Senate in Ohio, he said in a Fox News interview that “we are effectively run in this country via the Democrats,” and referred to them as “a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they’ve made and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too.” He said that included Harris, U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat.

“How does it make any sense that we’ve turned our country over to people who don’t really have a direct stake in it?” asked Vance, who is now Donald Trump’s running mate. Harris became stepmother to two teenagers when she married entertainment lawyer Douglas Emhoff in 2014. And Buttigieg announced he and his husband adopted infant twins in September 2021, more than a month before Vance made those comments.

Ok and conversely, I'd respond by saying... what right do people with children have in this country to dictate over people who do not?

The point is all Americans should have an equal voice. I don't care who they are.

Suggesting that people who don't have children should have less of a voice in Democracy, no matter the spin, is insane and very anti-American.

I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans who do not have children. I'm pretty sure one of the big members on this board is one of them.

Republicans are just so funny... you're not winning anybody over with this nonsense. It's why Vance was such a dumb choice. His rhetoric is not unifying whatsoever and is frankly pretty scary. The party just keeps tripping over itselves.

Here's a comment under the video referenced: "Just keep on alienating large swaths of voters. Helluva campaign strategy!"

It's just such a stupid strategy to use rhetoric like this... no matter the intent. Which I do not agree is noble intent.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

How did they bend what he said?

He literally believes that if you are childless, you should have less of a voice in our democracy. He made it very clear.

Here is the actual clip from 2021.
Nowhere does he say that childless people should have less say than people with children. He is questioning why [these certain] childless people have so much say with the children of this country. If they don't have children, how can they know or understand what a parent can go through?

I've felt this way since I had children of my own.


During Vance’s bid for the Senate in Ohio, he said in a Fox News interview that “we are effectively run in this country via the Democrats,” and referred to them as “a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they’ve made and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too.” He said that included Harris, U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat.

“How does it make any sense that we’ve turned our country over to people who don’t really have a direct stake in it?” asked Vance, who is now Donald Trump’s running mate. Harris became stepmother to two teenagers when she married entertainment lawyer Douglas Emhoff in 2014. And Buttigieg announced he and his husband adopted infant twins in September 2021, more than a month before Vance made those comments.

Ok and conversely, I'd respond by saying... what right do people with children have in this country to dictate over people who do not?

The point is all Americans should have an equal voice. I don't care who they are.

Suggesting that people who don't have children should have less of a voice in Democracy, no matter the spin, is insane and very anti-American.

I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans who do not have children. I'm pretty sure one of the big members on this board is one of them.

Republicans are just so funny... you're not winning anybody over with this nonsense. It's why Vance was such a dumb choice. His rhetoric is not unifying whatsoever and is frankly pretty scary. The party just keeps tripping over itselves.

Here's a comment under the video referenced: "Just keep on alienating large swaths of voters. Helluva campaign strategy!"

It's just such a stupid strategy to use rhetoric like this... no matter the intent. Which I do not agree is noble intent.

What does that have to do with democracy?

I personally believe that most people without children shouldn't have a voice in how others raise their children. Especially when it comes to Michael Obama, AOC and any other extreme hag in politics or is on a school board.

But the MSM generalizing and twisting what he said in the worst possible way, and you taking it in 'hook-line-and-sinker'.......your liberal is showing.

This falls under the same category as Trump saying that Mexico only sends their rapists and criminals, which is the opposite of what he said.

[Seattle or Bust]

Here is the actual clip from 2021.
Nowhere does he say that childless people should have less say than people with children. He is questioning why [these certain] childless people have so much say with the children of this country. If they don't have children, how can they know or understand what a parent can go through?

I've felt this way since I had children of my own.


During Vance’s bid for the Senate in Ohio, he said in a Fox News interview that “we are effectively run in this country via the Democrats,” and referred to them as “a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they’ve made and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too.” He said that included Harris, U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat.

“How does it make any sense that we’ve turned our country over to people who don’t really have a direct stake in it?” asked Vance, who is now Donald Trump’s running mate. Harris became stepmother to two teenagers when she married entertainment lawyer Douglas Emhoff in 2014. And Buttigieg announced he and his husband adopted infant twins in September 2021, more than a month before Vance made those comments.

Ok and conversely, I'd respond by saying... what right do people with children have in this country to dictate over people who do not?

The point is all Americans should have an equal voice. I don't care who they are.

Suggesting that people who don't have children should have less of a voice in Democracy, no matter the spin, is insane and very anti-American.

I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans who do not have children. I'm pretty sure one of the big members on this board is one of them.

Republicans are just so funny... you're not winning anybody over with this nonsense. It's why Vance was such a dumb choice. His rhetoric is not unifying whatsoever and is frankly pretty scary. The party just keeps tripping over itselves.

Here's a comment under the video referenced: "Just keep on alienating large swaths of voters. Helluva campaign strategy!"

It's just such a stupid strategy to use rhetoric like this... no matter the intent. Which I do not agree is noble intent.

What does that have to do with democracy?

I personally believe that most people without children shouldn't have a voice in how others raise their children.Especially when it comes to Michael Obama, AOC and any other extreme hag in politics or is on a school board.

But the MSM generalizing and twisting what he said in the worst possible way, and you taking it in 'hook-line-and-sinker'.......your liberal is showing.

This falls under the same category as Trump saying that Mexico only sends their rapists and criminals, which is the opposite of what he said.

"As a parent, you should have more power, more of an ability to speak your voice in a Democratic Republic, than people who don't have kids. Lets face the consequences and the reality. If you don't have as much of an investment in the future of this country maybe you shouldn't get nearly the same voice. Doesn't this mean non-parents don't have as much of a voice as parents, doesn't this mean that parents get a bigger say in how this Democracy functions? Yes, absolutely."

I'm sorry but is this not saying EXACTLY that people who do not have children should have less of a say in our Democracy?

And what's highlighted is not a realistic premise. What are you suggesting? That any childless person should have 0 say in how children are influenced in this country? So this includes childless doctors? teachers? scientists? Insanity... trust me when I say, most people who have children have 0 fucking clue what they're doing in even raising their own children, let alone raising other people's kids.

You can be childless but still well-versed and educated in areas of child-development.

I want experts to have influence. Being a parent does not make you an expert in anything. For a lot of people, it highlights just how much of an expert they aren't.

There are probably a lot of wonderful parents who have amazing input on child development. There are probably a lot of non-parents who do the same. Again, I'm for equal representation, not segregation based on feelings.

Michelle Obama as 2 children who appear to be perfectly great contributors to society. Again, I don't know why you diminish the strength of your argument by calling her Michael. It's just petty and stupid.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

"As a parent, you should have more power, more of an ability to speak your voice in a Democratic Republic, than people who don't have kids. Lets face the consequences and the reality. If you don't have as much of an investment in the future of this country maybe you shouldn't get nearly the same voice. Doesn't this mean non-parents don't have as much of a voice as parents, doesn't this mean that parents get a bigger say in how this Democracy functions? Yes, absolutely."

Sorry, but your don't have much credibility with me, so please post a link.

If that is the exact quote, I certainly can agree and disagree with it. I believe that parents should have more say in parenting....even in regards to teachers, doctors and politicians. A parents rights to their kids is a must.

But then you have to keep in mind people like Jennifer Aniston that can't have children. Shame really.

But there are those that are not good parents. But we are in a free country and they still have their rights. So this entire discussion is really a strawman.

I'm sorry but is this not saying EXACTLY that people who do not have children should have less of a say in our Democracy?

See above, it's the same response.

And what's highlighted is not a realistic premise. What are you suggesting? That any childless person should have 0 say in how children are influenced in this country? So this includes childless doctors? teachers? scientists? Insanity... trust me when I say, most people who have children have 0 fucking clue what they're doing in even raising their own children, let alone raising other people's kids.

I am not saying 'zero' response. I always accept recommendations, but to have policy to teach 2nd graders that there are 132 different genders is absurd.

No it wasn't the "Don't say gay" bill. It was a parents rights bill that stated that before 5th grade, teachers were not allowed to talk about sexuality with the children. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But the MSM filled peoples heads with a bunch of bullshit that the bill wasn't about.

How do you feel about drag-queen story time and other harmful things that are happening to our kids. You know, things like teachers asking students how they identify? Then hiding from the parents that they are transitioning....with help from the teacher. I don't know about you, but when I went to school that was called grooming.

You can be childless but still well-versed and educated in areas of child-development.

And you can write books too. Dr. Spock comes to mind, as well as What to expect when you are expecting. Great books about how to keep a child healthy.

But then you also have the quacks that prescribe puberty blockers to 10 year old's. Help to transition 8 year old's because they are not sure how they feel. So to say just because someone is a doctor or an 'expert' doesn't make them right.

I want experts to have influence. Being a parent does not make you an expert in anything. For a lot of people, it highlights just how much of an expert they aren't.

I agree that being a parent doesn't make anyone an expert.

There are probably a lot of wonderful parents who have amazing input on child development. There are probably a lot of non-parents who do the same. Again, I'm for equal representation, not segregation based on feelings.

I'll call bullshit on you here. Mostly because you are saying that feelings don't matter, and that goes against the cornerstone requirement of BLM, ANTIFA, and most of the left.

I truly believe that feelings don't matter, but that's because mine will be different from everyone else's. If you worry about peoples feelings, the facts will get in the way. I like facts.....not "the science" of the left, but the real science.

Putting all feelings aside, you may find yourself drifting to the middle, so watch out.

Michelle Obama as 2 children who appear to be perfectly great contributors to society. Again, I don't know why you diminish the strength of your argument by calling her Michael. It's just petty and stupid.

Just because someone has 2 children doesn't mean the birthed them.

As for me calling him Michael.....call it a quirk, but I despise that person as much as Nancy, AOC, Hillary and any other shrill bitch in politics.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

any other shrill bitch in politics

And when I say shrill bitch in politics.....

That Marjorie Greene and Lauren Boebert can be included.... but Boebert is kind of a hottie.

[gil]

"As a parent, you should have more power, more of an ability to speak your voice in a Democratic Republic, than people who don't have kids. Lets face the consequences and the reality. If you don't have as much of an investment in the future of this country maybe you shouldn't get nearly the same voice. Doesn't this mean non-parents don't have as much of a voice as parents, doesn't this mean that parents get a bigger say in how this Democracy functions? Yes, absolutely."

Sorry, but your don't have much credibility with me, so please post a link.

If that is the exact quote, I certainly can agree and disagree with it. I believe that parents should have more say in parenting....even in regards to teachers, doctors and politicians. A parents rights to their kids is a must.

What Vance said in a speech on July 24, 2021:

When you go to the polls in this country as a parent, you should have more power, you should have more of an ability to speak your voice in our democratic republic than people who don't have kids. Let's face the consequences and the reality: if you don't have as much of an investment in the future of this country, maybe you shouldn't get nearly the same voice.

Now people will say — and i'm sure The Atlantic and The Washington Post and all the usual suspects will criticize me about this in the coming days… "Well, doesn't this mean that non-parents don't have as much of a voice as parents? Doesn't this mean that parents get a bigger say in how our democracy functions?" Yes, absolutely.

This links starts at at 25:48, when Vance makes that statement.

https://youtu.be/jBrEng3xQYo?t=1548

It's clearly not only about say and control regarding parenting; it is about voting, period. The statement Vance makes immediately before this (starts at 25:34)

Let's give votes to all children in this country but let's give control over those votes to the parents of those children.

(The context is that he had brought up the idea of lowering the voting age to 16. Vance said "let's do this instead ...)

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Thanks for posting that, Gil.

I stand by what I said.

Parents do have more invested in the country by having children than someone that doesn't. Why? Because I do worry about their future.

[gil]

Thanks for posting that, Gil.

I stand by what I said.

Parents do have more invested in the country by having children than someone that doesn't. Why? Because I do worry about their future.

I do not have children, and I have no doubt that being a parent (for most parents) creates an emotional bond that I will never experience. That said, I would strongly argue that I care deeply about the future of the country. Partly it's because of wanting others to have the incredible opportunities and good fortunate I have had. (I know that one is a bit of an intellectualization.) On a more emotional level, I have younger siblings as well as nephews, nieces, their children, etc., who I care about deeply. Again, I understand it's not like having my own children, but I'll argue that I have a lot invested. I also think about the legacy of my parents and their parents who came here from Europe for better lives. If they are indeed looking down on us, I want them to feel that all of their descendants (including those without children) are both thriving and continuing to care about the generations that come later.

I don't mind that Vance said what he did. In the contest context of the speech, it's almost like a "thought experiment". He seems like a brilliant guy who is quite facile with ideas. What I do mind and resent is when someone disparages people without children, and says they just care about themselves and not their country.

[bpj]

I'd love to see them just raise the voting age to 25.

All kids are idiots and should have at least some life/world experience before they have a say in how things are run.