JFK assassination revisited

[gil]

Got my new car..

sweet!

[maoling]

I'm the other vote on this poll. After reading at least 20 or more books over 55 years, including the salient details of the whitewash Warren Commission, the 1976 Congressional investigation and watching a zillion hours of documentaries and seminars, watching Oswald get shot by Jack Ruby on live TV when I was five, literally spending my whole life devouring every bit I could about one of the most consequential events of my life, this is what I believe:

Oswald was the sole assassin that day, a patsy like he said, but part of a larger shadow conspiracy. He only fired two shots, not three. Despite three casings found at the Texas Book Depository, one of those casings was an unfired empty shell ejected as he chambered a live round and readied his aim under the greatest pressure and stress with his mail-order cheap-ass Italian rifle.

First shot missed, struck the street, and people saw the sparks and felt concrete spraying.

Second shot really was The Magic Bullet and struck Kennedy in the throat and continued into Governor Connally. Ballistics revealed that round's characteristics could perform like that without much disfiguration in the bullet's shape.

Secret Service Agent Hickey then rose in the car directly behind JFK, grabbed the automatic weapon under the front seat, flicked off the safety, turned to see where Oswald's shots came from, lost his balance at the car lunged forward and accidentally discharged the fatal fragmentation round that blew off the back of JFK's head. The ballistics and characteristics of the two bullets that struck Kennedy are completely different, according to those who analyzed them at autopsy at Bethesda. Ballistic and photographic documentation then conveniently disappeared, along virtually everything else that was critical to forensic analysis and the proper preservation of evidence.

To me, this is the only ballistic explanation that I can't explain away, although the relationship between the CIA, Giancana, Marcello and other shadow figures and agencies is forever a mystery to me. A conspiracy to be sure, but the fatal shot was an accident. People smelled gunpowder and saw smoke at ground level in that chaos and confusion of those few seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

[Sibelius Hindemith]

Interesting, i hadn't heard that theory but it sounds like you have read/watched 100 times more on the subject than i. One question i have though is in what sense was Oswald a patsy then if he was trying to kill JFK?

[mostonmike]

Brilliant stuff maoling.

I think I saw a documentary where they explored the theory on Hickey, but it didn't really provide enough depth or refer to the book, "Mortal Error"

Its probably one of the most plausible theories that has been mostly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative of lone gunman v conspiracy which is what the JFK debate has amounted to. You are either on one side or the other and mustn't consider the possibility that something even more extraordinary has happened.

JFK shooting was an accident? No one wants to go down that route as an explanation. If there was a cover up, was it to protect the agent who accidentally pulled the trigger?

The shooter who wanted to kill JFK therefore becomes the patsy in effect SH because he missed his shot but is fingered with the fatal shot anyway, to protect Hickey who would have been devastated with what he did.

When you have eliminated the impossible (and fanciful or stupid), whatever remains, however improbable, might be the truth.

I wouldn't rule out maoling's assessment. It could be the closest anyone has got to the answer.

[XpertDBA]

I'm the other vote on this poll. After reading at least 20 or more books over 55 years, including the salient details of the whitewash Warren Commission, the 1976 Congressional investigation and watching a zillion hours of documentaries and seminars, watching Oswald get shot by Jack Ruby on live TV when I was five, literally spending my whole life devouring every bit I could about one of the most consequential events of my life, this is what I believe:

Oswald was the sole assassin that day, a patsy like he said, but part of a larger shadow conspiracy. He only fired two shots, not three. Despite three casings found at the Texas Book Depository, one of those casings was an unfired empty shell ejected as he chambered a live round and readied his aim under the greatest pressure and stress with his mail-order cheap-ass Italian rifle.

First shot missed, struck the street, and people saw the sparks and felt concrete spraying.

Second shot really was The Magic Bullet and struck Kennedy in the throat and continued into Governor Connally. Ballistics revealed that round's characteristics could perform like that without much disfiguration in the bullet's shape.

Secret Service Agent Hickey then rose in the car directly behind JFK, grabbed the automatic weapon under the front seat, flicked off the safety, turned to see where Oswald's shots came from, lost his balance at the car lunged forward and accidentally discharged the fatal fragmentation round that blew off the back of JFK's head. The ballistics and characteristics of the two bullets that struck Kennedy are completely different, according to those who analyzed them at autopsy at Bethesda. Ballistic and photographic documentation then conveniently disappeared, along virtually everything else that was critical to forensic analysis and the proper preservation of evidence.

To me, this is the only ballistic explanation that I can't explain away, although the relationship between the CIA, Giancana, Marcello and other shadow figures and agencies is forever a mystery to me. A conspiracy to be sure, but the fatal shot was an accident. People smelled gunpowder and saw smoke at ground level in that chaos and confusion of those few seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

Nah, I'm not buying this theory:

1. No Witness Testimony Supports Hickey Firing a Shot
Numerous eyewitnesses heard or saw gunfire from the Texas School Book Depository or the "grassy knoll," but no one reported seeing or hearing a shot from the Secret Service follow-up car.

Hickey was visible to many people during the motorcade, and no accounts describe him firing a weapon, even accidentally.

2. Hickey Was Not Known to Be Handling a Rifle at That Moment
While the theory claims Hickey picked up an AR-15 from the back seat of the follow-up car, official Secret Service records do not conclusively support this.

Other agents have stated that while there was a rifle in the follow-up car, it was not being actively handled or fired during the motorcade.

3. Ballistics Evidence Supports Oswald’s Rifle
The Warren Commission and later the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that the bullet fragments and trajectory were consistent with Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.

No physical evidence (e.g. bullets, casings) has ever been found to match an AR-15 or any weapon other than Oswald's.

4. Autopsy and Wound Analysis
Forensic analysis of Kennedy’s head wound suggests a high-velocity bullet fired from behind and above, consistent with Oswald’s position. Surely Hickey's shot wouldn't have been from ABOVE.

The shot trajectory does not align with a shot fired from the Secret Service car, which was behind and level with Kennedy.

5. No Damage in the Follow-Up Car or Nearby People
A high-powered rifle accidentally discharged in a car with other agents present would likely result in audible noise, smoke, and possible injury or damage inside the vehicle.

No such effects were reported.

6. Timing of the Shots
The Zapruder film and acoustic evidence analyzed by the HSCA support a three-shot sequence from the book depository.

Hickey's accidental shot, if it occurred, would have to match this precise sequence — something the theory struggles to reconcile.

7. Secret Service Cover-Up Unlikely Without Leaks
For this theory to hold, it would require a massive and perfectly maintained cover-up involving the Secret Service, medical staff, investigators, and others — with no credible leak in over 60 years.

Critics argue that such a coordinated cover-up by so many people is implausible.

8. The AR-15 Theory Originated Decades Later
The theory emerged long after the assassination, and was not proposed at the time by any of the many official investigations or journalists.

It relies heavily on speculative reconstruction rather than hard evidence.

[DavidGee24]

I'm the other vote on this poll. After reading at least 20 or more books over 55 years, including the salient details of the whitewash Warren Commission, the 1976 Congressional investigation and watching a zillion hours of documentaries and seminars, watching Oswald get shot by Jack Ruby on live TV when I was five, literally spending my whole life devouring every bit I could about one of the most consequential events of my life, this is what I believe:

Oswald was the sole assassin that day, a patsy like he said, but part of a larger shadow conspiracy. He only fired two shots, not three. Despite three casings found at the Texas Book Depository, one of those casings was an unfired empty shell ejected as he chambered a live round and readied his aim under the greatest pressure and stress with his mail-order cheap-ass Italian rifle.

First shot missed, struck the street, and people saw the sparks and felt concrete spraying.

Second shot really was The Magic Bullet and struck Kennedy in the throat and continued into Governor Connally. Ballistics revealed that round's characteristics could perform like that without much disfiguration in the bullet's shape.

Secret Service Agent Hickey then rose in the car directly behind JFK, grabbed the automatic weapon under the front seat, flicked off the safety, turned to see where Oswald's shots came from, lost his balance at the car lunged forward and accidentally discharged the fatal fragmentation round that blew off the back of JFK's head. The ballistics and characteristics of the two bullets that struck Kennedy are completely different, according to those who analyzed them at autopsy at Bethesda. Ballistic and photographic documentation then conveniently disappeared, along virtually everything else that was critical to forensic analysis and the proper preservation of evidence.

To me, this is the only ballistic explanation that I can't explain away, although the relationship between the CIA, Giancana, Marcello and other shadow figures and agencies is forever a mystery to me. A conspiracy to be sure, but the fatal shot was an accident. People smelled gunpowder and saw smoke at ground level in that chaos and confusion of those few seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

Nah, I'm not buying this theory:

1. No Witness Testimony Supports Hickey Firing a Shot
Numerous eyewitnesses heard or saw gunfire from the Texas School Book Depository or the "grassy knoll," but no one reported seeing or hearing a shot from the Secret Service follow-up car.

Hickey was visible to many people during the motorcade, and no accounts describe him firing a weapon, even accidentally.

2. Hickey Was Not Known to Be Handling a Rifle at That Moment
While the theory claims Hickey picked up an AR-15 from the back seat of the follow-up car, official Secret Service records do not conclusively support this.

Other agents have stated that while there was a rifle in the follow-up car, it was not being actively handled or fired during the motorcade.

3. Ballistics Evidence Supports Oswald’s Rifle
The Warren Commission and later the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that the bullet fragments and trajectory were consistent with Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.

No physical evidence (e.g. bullets, casings) has ever been found to match an AR-15 or any weapon other than Oswald's.

4. Autopsy and Wound Analysis
Forensic analysis of Kennedy’s head wound suggests a high-velocity bullet fired from behind and above, consistent with Oswald’s position. Surely Hickey's shot wouldn't have been from ABOVE.

The shot trajectory does not align with a shot fired from the Secret Service car, which was behind and level with Kennedy.

5. No Damage in the Follow-Up Car or Nearby People
A high-powered rifle accidentally discharged in a car with other agents present would likely result in audible noise, smoke, and possible injury or damage inside the vehicle.

No such effects were reported.

6. Timing of the Shots
The Zapruder film and acoustic evidence analyzed by the HSCA support a three-shot sequence from the book depository.

Hickey's accidental shot, if it occurred, would have to match this precise sequence — something the theory struggles to reconcile.

7. Secret Service Cover-Up Unlikely Without Leaks
For this theory to hold, it would require a massive and perfectly maintained cover-up involving the Secret Service, medical staff, investigators, and others — with no credible leak in over 60 years.

Critics argue that such a coordinated cover-up by so many people is implausible.

8. The AR-15 Theory Originated Decades Later
The theory emerged long after the assassination, and was not proposed at the time by any of the many official investigations or journalists.

It relies heavily on speculative reconstruction rather than hard evidence.

I agree with you on this, that speculation sounds like something that someone years later came up with for the same reasons people always come up with this stuff (for attention). I believe that Oswald fired those shots and scored those two direct hits. From the window he fired from it wasn't that difficult as long as you didn't spaz while squeezing the trigger.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

I found the SS agent accidentally firing fascination, but not likely for a few reasons.

1. I doubt the SS uses AR-15's. These are semi-automatic rifles that are not military grade or government issued. If this idea is to hold water, the rifle he would have grabbed would most likely be an M-16 (which can be fully automatic).

2. Usually when grabbing any rifle, you don't take it off of safe before scanning the targets. It's easy enough to use the thumb safety switch as soon as you know where you are going to point the weapon.

3. You certainly don't place your finger on the trigger if the safety is off unless you have a target in your sights. Once again, it's easy enough to place your finger on the trigger once the target has been identified.

But it's also possible that this SS agent was a dope who didn't know how to handle weapons. But that would require the question "Why in the fuck was he guarding the President of the United States?"

[XpertDBA]

I do agree that Oswald was wrapped up in more nefarious things with either the Mafia or some other organization, but he was still the only shooter. Oliver Stone saying that Lyndon Johnson was driving the whole thing is completely laughable. That entire movie is one big propaganda farce. It's a shame that today's youth actually think his movie is real history, when it actually is a complete piece of crap.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

I do agree that Oswald was wrapped up into more nefarious things with either the Mafia or some other organization, but he was still the only shooter. Oliver Stone saying that Lyndon Johnson was driving the whole thing is completely laughable. That entire movie is one big propaganda farce. It's a shame that today's youth actually think his movie is real history, when it actually is a complete piece of crap.

But int's not surprising because todays youth is pretty fucking stupid.... or just susceptible to brainwashing.

And I did edit your post...... you misspelled propaganda.

[XpertDBA]

I do agree that Oswald was wrapped up into more nefarious things with either the Mafia or some other organization, but he was still the only shooter. Oliver Stone saying that Lyndon Johnson was driving the whole thing is completely laughable. That entire movie is one big propaganda farce. It's a shame that today's youth actually think his movie is real history, when it actually is a complete piece of crap.

But int's not surprising because todays youth is pretty fucking stupid.... or just susceptible to brainwashing.

And I did edit your post...... you misspelled propaganda.

Thank you. I always get that word wrong.