Tariffs?

[gil]

Good points about manufacturing, for the most part.

What we need is the ability to be independent when necessary.

Covid exposed a massive problem with our society. We can't be dependent on other countries, especially for critical goods. It's especially insane to be getting things like our medicines made there.

I don't know enough about economics to have any idea whether what Trumps doing will accomplish his goals, but I hope they at least fix these problems.

Having the ability to produce what we need in a crisis, to pull up the drawbridges so to speak, is a really important argument. It really is separate from tariffs, though. It's industrial policy: making sure we can manufacture/produce medicine, foods, armaments, etc., and ramp up quickly if international supply chains fail.

Assuming the same people will take control back from Trump in 2028, what could Trump do in 4 years that would fix the problem?

After his first term made it obvious, he knows he's going to be fought every step of the way, so trying to get enough bureaucrats to support his plan would never happen.

Glad to see he's making it happen instead of playing patty cakes with the paid-off pedos in our government.

Good question. From the things I know, it takes a lot more than 4 years to "build" an industry within a country. So I think that the best Trump could do is to lay out a comprehensive plan, and get started with targeted investments that hopefully could not be undone by the next administration.

[Donn Beach]

Targeted investments? The federal is going to target investments? That's called socialism, that's the very heart of socialism, that's china

[gil]

I don't know where "socialism" starts on the continuum from a complete free market to complete government control of the economy. But I'd rather make investments to stimulate a critical sector of the economy (e.g., semiconductors) than put up tariffs to assure that we have a domestic sugar industry. In other words, policy already favors certain industries via tariffs and subsidies, price supports, federal purchasing, etc.

[Donn Beach]

America be better off with more factories so long if I'm not working in one

Frank Luntz
@FrankLuntz
·
Follow
“America would be better off if more people worked in manufacturing.”

• 80% of Americans agree
• 20% disagree

“I would be better off if I worked in a factory.”

• 25% of Americans agree
• 73% disagree
• 2% currently work in a factory

[gil]

America be better off with more factories so long if I'm not working in one

Frank Luntz
@FrankLuntz
·
Follow
“America would be better off if more people worked in manufacturing.”

• 80% of Americans agree
• 20% disagree

“I would be better off if I worked in a factory.”

• 25% of Americans agree
• 73% disagree
• 2% currently work in a factory

In China, there apparently are HUNDREDS of "dark factories". No one works there; they are fully automated with Artificial Intelligence and robots. (They are called dark because there is no need for lighting, except when maintenance people come in once a week or so.)

So in the US, we complain about cheap Chinese goods because they don't pay workers much, and now they have leapfrogged us by a generation of manufacturing technology. Our leaders are thinking of the China that existed in the 1990s. We are obsessed with tariffs and pronouns and DEI and deporting pro-palestinian graduate students, while China is creating the future. China didn't steal this from us (although stole plenty in the day); it was built in house via education, training, capital, and investment.

Tell me how we are not fucked if we stay on our current path.

[bpj]

America be better off with more factories so long if I'm not working in one

Frank Luntz
@FrankLuntz
·
Follow
“America would be better off if more people worked in manufacturing.”

• 80% of Americans agree
• 20% disagree

“I would be better off if I worked in a factory.”

• 25% of Americans agree
• 73% disagree
• 2% currently work in a factory

In China, there apparently are HUNDREDS of "dark factories". No one works there; they are fully automated with Artificial Intelligence and robots. (They are called dark because there is no need for lighting, except when maintenance people come in once a week or so.)

So in the US, we complain about cheap Chinese goods because they don't pay workers much, and now they have leapfrogged us by a generation of manufacturing technology. Our leaders are thinking of the China that existed in the 1990s. We are obsessed with tariffs and pronouns and DEI and deporting pro-palestinian graduate students, while China is creating the future. China didn't steal this from us (although stole plenty in the day); it was built in house via education, training, capital, and investment.

Tell me how we are not fucked if we stay on our current path.

Nobody can tell you that, because we are.

That's why Trump has to fix it.

He knows Congress won't play ball.

So he has to go the executive order route.

Then, if things go well, his successor will win easily in 2028.

If things don't go well, the Democrats will win, and continue driving the country straight into the ground as they intended all along.

[gil]

America be better off with more factories so long if I'm not working in one

In China, there apparently are HUNDREDS of "dark factories". No one works there; they are fully automated with Artificial Intelligence and robots. (They are called dark because there is no need for lighting, except when maintenance people come in once a week or so.)

So in the US, we complain about cheap Chinese goods because they don't pay workers much, and now they have leapfrogged us by a generation of manufacturing technology. Our leaders are thinking of the China that existed in the 1990s. We are obsessed with tariffs and pronouns and DEI and deporting pro-palestinian graduate students, while China is creating the future. China didn't steal this from us (although stole plenty in the day); it was built in house via education, training, capital, and investment.

Tell me how we are not fucked if we stay on our current path.

Nobody can tell you that, because we are.

That's why Trump has to fix it.

He knows Congress won't play ball.

So he has to go the executive order route.

Then, if things go well, his successor will win easily in 2028.

If things don't go well, the Democrats will win, and continue driving the country straight into the ground as they intended all along.

I hope things go well, although I realize that we likely disagree on what "going well" means.

But the bigger thing I want to say is that the things we are talking about -- with regard to manufacturing in the US, and thereby creating jobs, and retaking the lead in technology -- take more than 4 years to address. Tariffs can be put in place immediately, but building US manufacturing capabilities is not going to happen in a year or two or even a presidential term.

I know I can be a polyanna about these things, but we need an agreement broadly among people who will be running our government over the course of several presidential terms. If Trump can start something and the next president keeps it rolling, then we have a chance of making progress. As it is, the "opposition party" resists, making it hard to get things done. Then the new administration, if it comes from the other party, tries to undo what it can of the previous administration. It's completely dysfunctional. Some things take long term planning and commitment.

[XpertDBA]

Glad to hear you say that gil. Guess this means you'll be voting Republican for the foreseeable future? Glad you have you (Sarcasm intended)

[bpj]

In China, there apparently are HUNDREDS of "dark factories". No one works there; they are fully automated with Artificial Intelligence and robots. (They are called dark because there is no need for lighting, except when maintenance people come in once a week or so.)

So in the US, we complain about cheap Chinese goods because they don't pay workers much, and now they have leapfrogged us by a generation of manufacturing technology. Our leaders are thinking of the China that existed in the 1990s. We are obsessed with tariffs and pronouns and DEI and deporting pro-palestinian graduate students, while China is creating the future. China didn't steal this from us (although stole plenty in the day); it was built in house via education, training, capital, and investment.

Tell me how we are not fucked if we stay on our current path.

Nobody can tell you that, because we are.

That's why Trump has to fix it.

He knows Congress won't play ball.

So he has to go the executive order route.

Then, if things go well, his successor will win easily in 2028.

If things don't go well, the Democrats will win, and continue driving the country straight into the ground as they intended all along.

I hope things go well, although I realize that we likely disagree on what "going well" means.

But the bigger thing I want to say is that the things we are talking about -- with regard to manufacturing in the US, and thereby creating jobs, and retaking the lead in technology -- take more than 4 years to address. Tariffs can be put in place immediately, but building US manufacturing capabilities is not going to happen in a year or two or even a presidential term.

I know I can be a polyanna about these things, but we need an agreement broadly among people who will be running our government over the course of several presidential terms. If Trump can start something and the next president keeps it rolling, then we have a chance of making progress. As it is, the "opposition party" resists, making it hard to get things done. Then the new administration, if it comes from the other party, tries to undo what it can of the previous administration. It's completely dysfunctional. Some things take long term planning and commitment.

I think that's exactly why Trump can't wait for everything to be approved by Congress, which probably wouldn't happen anyways.

He needs 3 years of results so the next nominee has a leg to stand on and people can choose Trumps path, or back to letting illegals overrun our country and running the country directly into the ground by picking another lib.

[gil]

Nobody can tell you that, because we are.

That's why Trump has to fix it.

He knows Congress won't play ball.

So he has to go the executive order route.

Then, if things go well, his successor will win easily in 2028.

If things don't go well, the Democrats will win, and continue driving the country straight into the ground as they intended all along.

I hope things go well, although I realize that we likely disagree on what "going well" means.

But the bigger thing I want to say is that the things we are talking about -- with regard to manufacturing in the US, and thereby creating jobs, and retaking the lead in technology -- take more than 4 years to address. Tariffs can be put in place immediately, but building US manufacturing capabilities is not going to happen in a year or two or even a presidential term.

I know I can be a polyanna about these things, but we need an agreement broadly among people who will be running our government over the course of several presidential terms. If Trump can start something and the next president keeps it rolling, then we have a chance of making progress. As it is, the "opposition party" resists, making it hard to get things done. Then the new administration, if it comes from the other party, tries to undo what it can of the previous administration. It's completely dysfunctional. Some things take long term planning and commitment.

I think that's exactly why Trump can't wait for everything to be approved by Congress, which probably wouldn't happen anyways.

He needs 3 years of results so the next nominee has a leg to stand on and people can choose Trumps path, or back to letting illegals overrun our country and running the country directly into the ground by picking another lib.

I'm reading about things that sound good to me, like securing the southern border and making it easier for people here illegally to "self deport". But do you have any sense of the "big picture"? With millions of people here illegally, how much of that is being addressed?

Speaking of tariffs, I was expecting this second Trump administration to be more "professional" than the first, with coordination and competence. Instead I see a lot of flailing around (e.g., all the changes on tariff policy) and nice "publicity" deportation moves (like arresting the grad students who demonstrated against Israel).

I don't mean everything. For example, I just read about Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, announcing a big reorganization (including major cuts) of the State Department. That strikes me as pretty well thought out.