Here’s THE TRUTH About the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (A Comprehensive History)- by Ben Sharpiro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEoVzKyD_IM
Hamas Attack in Israel
-
DanielVogelbach
- Posts: 748
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:43 pm
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
Ben Shapiro lol.
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
Interesting insight, thank you.Cascade Kid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:40 amHere’s THE TRUTH About the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (A Comprehensive History)- by Ben Sharpiro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEoVzKyD_IM
Have had to roll my eyes at many of Shapiro's recent posts on Twitter, he's 100% aligned with the Israeli narrative.
We can post videos from both sides:
https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/ ... 7bnMw&s=19
But I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
Looks like he had the same stance as Israel on the vaccines also, surprise.
- Attachments
-
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
Wow, this is offensive.
- Attachments
-
- 20231116_002552.jpg (112.37 KiB) Viewed 1692 times
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
Timely Tucker Carlson interview of Candace Owens who has been in a spat with Ben Shapiro the last couple days-
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/statu ... MTy8Q&s=19
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/statu ... MTy8Q&s=19
- Attachments
-
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
A very simplistic history of the Middle East. It leaves out much, but it is also fairly accurate, unlike a lot of the propaganda you will get from reading only one side of an argument. Remember, this is History. And history will show that a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel was in effect on October 6, 2023. The ceasefire was broken by Hamas on October 7, 2023. This last is my addition to the History shown in the article below.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... istory.php
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... istory.php
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
Looks like there were more developments between Israel and Palestinians even in 2023. Doesn't seem to support the "But October 7th!" narrative.
According to a March, 2023 presentation to the UN by the High Commissioner of Human Rights, there are 700,000 illegal settlers, there stealing people's land, and Israel turns a blind eye while keeping the Palestinians under their control.
Settlers, meaning like this guy that came to take over this family's home. Because as a settler, they're allowed to do so and there's nothing the Palestinians can do about it:
https://x.com/TorahJudaism/status/17197 ... 96456?s=20
The stealing of property along with the intimidation of the Israeli military in these areas are the "occupation" as described in the presentation to the UN when the Palestinians pleaded for help, and:
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/hum ... -excerpts/
Then, in April, 2023, Israel raided the Al Aqsa Mosque and injured 50 Palestinians in a clash.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-65184207
From the article:
- Screenshot_20231116_161930_DuckDuckGo.jpg (291.3 KiB) Viewed 1674 times
According to a March, 2023 presentation to the UN by the High Commissioner of Human Rights, there are 700,000 illegal settlers, there stealing people's land, and Israel turns a blind eye while keeping the Palestinians under their control.
Settlers, meaning like this guy that came to take over this family's home. Because as a settler, they're allowed to do so and there's nothing the Palestinians can do about it:
https://x.com/TorahJudaism/status/17197 ... 96456?s=20
The stealing of property along with the intimidation of the Israeli military in these areas are the "occupation" as described in the presentation to the UN when the Palestinians pleaded for help, and:
That was from March, 2023, here is the link to UN page:In the ensuing general debate under agenda item seven on the human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab Territories, speakers supported the establishment of Palestine as an independent State with East Jerusalem as its capital, calling upon the international community to find a peaceful and just solution to the conflict, in line with the respect of the human rights of the Palestinian people.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/hum ... -excerpts/
Then, in April, 2023, Israel raided the Al Aqsa Mosque and injured 50 Palestinians in a clash.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-65184207
From the article:
THEN, October 7th happened.The leader of the Palestinian Islamist militant group Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, called the incident "an unprecedented crime" and warned Israel that there would be "consequences".
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
One of the greatest Historians of our time, Victor Davis Hanson, recently posted an article on this current conflict in the Middle East. In the past, Professor Hanson has shown that "proportionality" is a fabulous way to lose a war and at best, prolong a conflict with a result of even greater casualties. If you wish, I suggest you read some of his books and articles. They cover everything from the Bronze Age to current, 21st Century wars. His article on "proportionality" does a terrific job of explaining both sides of the discussion. If you have any interest at a dispassionate voice discussing history, this is a preeminent site. His website, with many helpful articles, can be found at:
www,victorhanson.com
And this is the specific article I reference:
When Has War Even Been ‘Proportional?’
13 Comments / November 16, 2023
Victor Davis Hanson
American Greatness
Proportionality in war is a synonym for lethal stalemate, if not defeat.
When two sides go at it with roughly equal forces, weapons, and strategies, the result is often a horrific deadlock—like the four years of toxic trench warfare on the Western Front of World War I that resulted in 12 million fatalities.
The purpose of war is to defeat the enemy as quickly as possible with the least number of causalities—and thereby achieve political ends.
So, every side aims to find superior strategies, tactics, weapons, and manpower to ensure as great a disproportionate advantage as possible.
Hamas is no exception.
Its savage precivilizational strategy to defeat Israel hinged on doing disproportionate things Israel either cannot or will not do.
First, Hamas spent a year planning a preemptive butchery spree inside Israel. Its ruthless murdering focused on “soft targets” like unarmed elderly, women, children, and infants, mostly asleep at a time of peace and holiday.
Second, it sought to collectively shock Israel into paralysis by the sheer horror of decapitating civilians, burning babies, mass raping, and mutilating bodies.
Another apparent aim of such premodern barbarity was to blame Israel’s “occupation” for turning Gazans into veritable monsters, with hopes of derailing the renewed Abraham Accords.
Third, the gunmen took more than 240 hostages back with them to Gaza.
Again, that was a disproportionate tactic designed to meter out the release of captives in exchange for “pauses” and “cease-fires” to save Hamas.
Additionally, Hamas made implicit threats of gruesome executions of captives unless Israel ceased their retaliation for October 7.
Fourth, all the while Hamas shot rockets into Israel, more than 7,000 in total, and all aimed at civilians.
Not one launch was preceded by dropping leaflets or sending text messages to Israeli civilians to vacate the intended target areas—a protocol often used by the Israel Defense Forces.
The unapologetic aim was to kill thousands of Israelis at random and disproportionately.
In fact, in just the last few four weeks, Hamas has launched more than twice as many rockets into Israel as Nazi Germany managed to launch V-2s into Britain in five months.
Fifth, Hamas sought to create a multibillion-dollar tunnel city beneath Gaza. The labyrinth’s sole purposes were to stockpile weapons and ensure safe havens for terrorists to shoot rockets and regroup after their terrorist missions.
Sixth, the subterranean headquarters of Hamas elites, along with weapons depots, were strategically placed under hospitals, mosques, and schools to “shield” them from Israeli attacks.
The expectation was that the IDF would be hesitant to target such “civilian” and “humanitarian” areas in a way Hamas never would.
Seventh, Hamas forced the civilians of Gaza to remain among the street fighting. They often shot those who resisted.
They also killed Gazans who fled the city. Hamas sought to increase civilian fodder as collateral damage from Israeli attacks. Such deaths were to be broadcast worldwide to win sympathy for Hamas terrorists and force a cease-fire.
Eighth, Hamas bragged that it could repeat strategies 1-7 endlessly on the supposition Israel would tire, the world would turn against it, and it at last could murder enough Jews to end Israel altogether.
Israel in turn seeks its own disproportionate response to defeat Hamas.
First, it seeks to single out and kill the actual Hamas terrorists, and especially the 2,000 or so killers of October 7.
Second, it tries to warn civilians to flee anywhere that Hamas masses. Just as Hamas wants its own civilians killed for propaganda purposes, so Israel seeks to avoid killing them.
Third, by targeting Hamas and warning civilians to keep their distance, Israel does not deny that there will be collateral damage.
But it hopes to convince the world that any civilian deaths are mostly the fault of Hamas and not the IDF.
And to the degree that Gaza City is left in rubble, Israel wishes to remind its enemies that the wages of murdering Jewish infants unfortunately will be a disproportionate response, whose full effects will deter any future attack.
Fourth, Israel understands that a country of 9-10 million is facing a virulently hostile 500 million-person Arab Middle East. The United Nations is on the side of Hamas. A now anti-Semitic Europe has been hijacked by immigrants from the Middle East. Israel’s sole patron the United States is buffeted by a hard-left new Democratic Party that is not a reliable partner.
The result is that Israel still cannot conduct a fully disproportionate war without endangering its source of military resupply in the United States, and a wider conflict with the Islamic world.
And so, the war continues.
Hamas strives for a more disproportionate terrorist agenda to prolong the war. And Israel strives for a more disproportionate retaliation to end it.
The anger arises at Israel mostly because it is Jewish, and thus far its conventional disproportionality is proving more effective than the terrorist disproportionality of Hamas.
www,victorhanson.com
And this is the specific article I reference:
When Has War Even Been ‘Proportional?’
13 Comments / November 16, 2023
Victor Davis Hanson
American Greatness
Proportionality in war is a synonym for lethal stalemate, if not defeat.
When two sides go at it with roughly equal forces, weapons, and strategies, the result is often a horrific deadlock—like the four years of toxic trench warfare on the Western Front of World War I that resulted in 12 million fatalities.
The purpose of war is to defeat the enemy as quickly as possible with the least number of causalities—and thereby achieve political ends.
So, every side aims to find superior strategies, tactics, weapons, and manpower to ensure as great a disproportionate advantage as possible.
Hamas is no exception.
Its savage precivilizational strategy to defeat Israel hinged on doing disproportionate things Israel either cannot or will not do.
First, Hamas spent a year planning a preemptive butchery spree inside Israel. Its ruthless murdering focused on “soft targets” like unarmed elderly, women, children, and infants, mostly asleep at a time of peace and holiday.
Second, it sought to collectively shock Israel into paralysis by the sheer horror of decapitating civilians, burning babies, mass raping, and mutilating bodies.
Another apparent aim of such premodern barbarity was to blame Israel’s “occupation” for turning Gazans into veritable monsters, with hopes of derailing the renewed Abraham Accords.
Third, the gunmen took more than 240 hostages back with them to Gaza.
Again, that was a disproportionate tactic designed to meter out the release of captives in exchange for “pauses” and “cease-fires” to save Hamas.
Additionally, Hamas made implicit threats of gruesome executions of captives unless Israel ceased their retaliation for October 7.
Fourth, all the while Hamas shot rockets into Israel, more than 7,000 in total, and all aimed at civilians.
Not one launch was preceded by dropping leaflets or sending text messages to Israeli civilians to vacate the intended target areas—a protocol often used by the Israel Defense Forces.
The unapologetic aim was to kill thousands of Israelis at random and disproportionately.
In fact, in just the last few four weeks, Hamas has launched more than twice as many rockets into Israel as Nazi Germany managed to launch V-2s into Britain in five months.
Fifth, Hamas sought to create a multibillion-dollar tunnel city beneath Gaza. The labyrinth’s sole purposes were to stockpile weapons and ensure safe havens for terrorists to shoot rockets and regroup after their terrorist missions.
Sixth, the subterranean headquarters of Hamas elites, along with weapons depots, were strategically placed under hospitals, mosques, and schools to “shield” them from Israeli attacks.
The expectation was that the IDF would be hesitant to target such “civilian” and “humanitarian” areas in a way Hamas never would.
Seventh, Hamas forced the civilians of Gaza to remain among the street fighting. They often shot those who resisted.
They also killed Gazans who fled the city. Hamas sought to increase civilian fodder as collateral damage from Israeli attacks. Such deaths were to be broadcast worldwide to win sympathy for Hamas terrorists and force a cease-fire.
Eighth, Hamas bragged that it could repeat strategies 1-7 endlessly on the supposition Israel would tire, the world would turn against it, and it at last could murder enough Jews to end Israel altogether.
Israel in turn seeks its own disproportionate response to defeat Hamas.
First, it seeks to single out and kill the actual Hamas terrorists, and especially the 2,000 or so killers of October 7.
Second, it tries to warn civilians to flee anywhere that Hamas masses. Just as Hamas wants its own civilians killed for propaganda purposes, so Israel seeks to avoid killing them.
Third, by targeting Hamas and warning civilians to keep their distance, Israel does not deny that there will be collateral damage.
But it hopes to convince the world that any civilian deaths are mostly the fault of Hamas and not the IDF.
And to the degree that Gaza City is left in rubble, Israel wishes to remind its enemies that the wages of murdering Jewish infants unfortunately will be a disproportionate response, whose full effects will deter any future attack.
Fourth, Israel understands that a country of 9-10 million is facing a virulently hostile 500 million-person Arab Middle East. The United Nations is on the side of Hamas. A now anti-Semitic Europe has been hijacked by immigrants from the Middle East. Israel’s sole patron the United States is buffeted by a hard-left new Democratic Party that is not a reliable partner.
The result is that Israel still cannot conduct a fully disproportionate war without endangering its source of military resupply in the United States, and a wider conflict with the Islamic world.
And so, the war continues.
Hamas strives for a more disproportionate terrorist agenda to prolong the war. And Israel strives for a more disproportionate retaliation to end it.
The anger arises at Israel mostly because it is Jewish, and thus far its conventional disproportionality is proving more effective than the terrorist disproportionality of Hamas.
Re: Hamas Attack in Israel
Israel is a bully and they've lost control of the narrative. There's no putting this genie back in the bottle.
Nobody even noticed we had Palestinians living among us until Israel "retaliated" and had killed 10,000 of their people and they start saying enough is enough.
This guy lays out the current state of things pretty well imo-
https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/stat ... jf1kQ&s=19
Nobody even noticed we had Palestinians living among us until Israel "retaliated" and had killed 10,000 of their people and they start saying enough is enough.
This guy lays out the current state of things pretty well imo-
- Screenshot_20231119_034613_X.jpg (411.11 KiB) Viewed 1608 times