Missing Titanic Submersible

[D-train]

This story has a great mix of technology, business, and human behavior ... so of course I have been fixated (when not dealing with these things for my day job).

First of all, RIP all the passengers and thoughts and prayers to their families and friends. None of what I'm going to write lessens that.

But one thing I find fascinating is how Stockton Rush, CEO of Ocean Gate and one of the deceased, was so confident of his design for the Titan submersible that he ignored warnings from others in the (very small) submersible community. I never met or correspond with Mr. Rush, but what I have read reminds me of a lot of other smart entrepreneurs I have known. He seems to have felt that he had a better understanding of things that others, and that regulations and standards were barriers to innovation.

The scientific method requires that your theories (in this case, regarding the integrity of the design of and materials used for the submersible) have to be "disprovable". That is, if I were Mr. Rush, an application of the scientific method would be "what would convince me that I need to change something, or delay something, or investigate something further?" If the answer is "nothing", you are no using the scientific method.

Instead, it seems to me that Mr. Rush was convinced he was correct, and that anyone criticizing him simply demonstrated that they were wrong. For example (this is hearsay from a scientist I know) when confronted with the arguments that the Titan submersible should go though more professional reviews, Mr. Rush responded that he would not do that until the professional review process caught up with his innovations. That is a lot of confidence; some probably will say hubris.

As I said, I think it is not uncommon among other brilliant entrepreneurs. Steve Jobs thought that he knew better that he doctors. We saw how that worked out. Obviously, tragedy does not cause the end of all (thankfully!) but I think it's an interesting cautionary tale.

Good summary gil. Sometimes thinking outside of the box is good and sometimes it isn't especially when you end up dead because of it.

Thanks, dt. I think it's a matter of how we put the reins on out of the box thinking. I'm sure you've been in "brainstorming" sessions in work situations. The brainstorming is best when it's unencumbered. The problem is when no one says to the CEO "hey it's just an idea we got excited about; now it's time to take off our brainstorming hats and put on our analytical hats."

Yes I can think of two examples:

1. The guy that thought it was a good idea to put wood paneling on Cars in the 70s
2. The woman that thought of using a fake Tranny to sell Bud light

[Donn Beach]

So you want more regulations on the free enterprise system and to have more bureaucracy and red tape to stifle innovation because "the system" is never corrupt or inefficient. Perhaps you would be happier in a place where government controls everything including what you think.

I think what you wrote is a pretty extreme position, and not one I would advocate. I'm a free enterprise person, but I do think there are roles for government. Honestly, if someone wants to pay a quarter million to be bolted into a submersible and go 2.5 miles down, I'm inclined to say go for it and "caveat emptor." I lean more toward regulation of products and services that are "everyday"/"everyman" things where the consumer can't easily detect things like health problems. For example, I strongly favor inspection of meat. Even though I am sure there is some corruption and inefficiency there, I think regulation and inspection are net wins for the public. Also, with meat inspections and a number of other things, my opinion is that the regulation *encourages* innovation: innovating to protect health and make a profit at the same time.

Innovation is a good and I don't want to stifle it. So as I said, let 'er rip with submersibles. ... Except take note of the detail that we (tax payers) are now footing the bill for this free enterprise submersible failure.

It wasn't regulators that were taking issue with his approach it was other members of his community, including an ex employee that later sued him

[Donn Beach]

I can't believe they were talking about how much oxygen they had left. If they had just got stuck they wouldn't have lost communication. Obviously an implosion for the moment I first heard about it.

They knew what had happened days earlier

.A U.S. Navy analysis of acoustic data “detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion” near the Titan around the time it lost communications Sunday, a senior Navy official said. The sound was not definitive, but it was immediately shared with commanders, who decided to keep searching, the official said

[D-train]

I can't believe they were talking about how much oxygen they had left. If they had just got stuck they wouldn't have lost communication. Obviously an implosion for the moment I first heard about it.

They knew what had happened days earlier

.A U.S. Navy analysis of acoustic data “detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion” near the Titan around the time it lost communications Sunday, a senior Navy official said. The sound was not definitive, but it was immediately shared with commanders, who decided to keep searching, the official said

I know, I am talking about the media that kept the count down of when the oxygen would run out.

[Donn Beach]

Of course they are going to continue to report it. If there are full scale rescue efforts being made it's relevant information. What are they supposed to report, don't worry about the oxygen, they are already dead

[D-train]

Of course they are going to continue to report it. If there are full scale rescue efforts being made it's relevant information. What are they supposed to report, don't worry about the oxygen, they are already dead

Anyone with a brain knew they were already dead but I guess that likely isn't the majority of their audience so I understand why that kept reporting it, I just found it comical. lol

[D-train]

I wonder if there will be only last mission of family members down to the site of the implosion for the funerals?

[Donn Beach]

That would seem to be the regulatory aspect Rush rebelled against

. His company also alarmed industry veterans by declining to class the Titan, a routine inspection process that would have provided a layer of oversight. “You are taking on a lot of risk and the risk you are taking might affect the entire industry,” said the president of the industry group Marine Technology Society’s submarine committee, Will Kohnen, who recalled to CNN concerns he conveyed to OceanGate founder Rush in 2018.

If OceanGate had pursued a certification review “some of this may have been avoided,” Kohnen told CNN on Wednesday.

Because the Titan was diving in international waters, the vessel appeared to operate in a regulatory gap.

“It is a gray area that is being exposed to the light of day,” said Sal Mercogliano, a professor at Campbell University in North Carolina and maritime historian.

The Titan’s lack of credentials was noted in legal waivers OceanGate asked customers to sign before voyages. The company reportedly warned that its newest submersible had “not been approved or certified by any regulatory body” and that a dive “could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death.”

[douche]

This forum is pretty much your typical sewing circle. We certainly don't gossip, criticize or slander here

Fair statement, but we don't profit from it. And our soapbox isn't nearly as large. People with large soapboxes who can sway the public (and in addition are paid large sums of money) should be held to a higher level of responsibility. But that's just my opinion.

[douche]

Investor Jay Bloom backed out on his son's advice.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/06/2 ... ts-vpx.cnn