Seattle is Lost

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D-train
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by D-train » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:26 pm

gil wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:54 pm
D-train wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm
Love how they scale these graphs to make it look like temps are just SKYROCKETING when it has actually gone up 1 degree Celsius in 40 years.

Here is what the graph looks like with a normal scale. The average temp on earth is 57 degrees or 14 C. Here it is with the scale going from 0-100 Fahrenheit or 38 to -17 Celsius. Not quite as dramatic is it. Now you know how these scientists/propaganda gurus push the narrative by manipulating how they present the data. Of course almost nobody questions it.

temp.JPG
I don't know why you call it manipulation, dt. It's typical to have the range of a variable over time fill the vertical space in a graph. It's easier to read, I think. You don't expand a vertical scale to go well beyond the range of observations. This is the way I see it done with stock prices and everything else.

As to the "flat line" graph that you posted. Is that how you present YOUR data? (All the white space and almost no information on the dependent variable?) Would you chart a patient's temperature on a 32 to 200 degree scale. ("Gee, that 105 fever isn't much above 98 from what I can see.")

And it's still a 1 degree Celsius increase. You aren't denying it, are you?
Its totally manipulation. Wouldn't you agree that 0-100 is a range of normal temps on Earth? They are making it look like temps rose 100% from 0 to 1 from 1960-2020 when they actually only went from 14 to 15 from 1940 to 2020 which is a 6% increase in 80 years.
dt

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D-train
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by D-train » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:32 pm

Carbon emissions by country. China more than double the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _emissions
dt

auroraave
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by auroraave » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:41 pm

D-train wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:26 pm
gil wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:54 pm
D-train wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm
Love how they scale these graphs to make it look like temps are just SKYROCKETING when it has actually gone up 1 degree Celsius in 40 years.

Here is what the graph looks like with a normal scale. The average temp on earth is 57 degrees or 14 C. Here it is with the scale going from 0-100 Fahrenheit or 38 to -17 Celsius. Not quite as dramatic is it. Now you know how these scientists/propaganda gurus push the narrative by manipulating how they present the data. Of course almost nobody questions it.

temp.JPG
I don't know why you call it manipulation, dt. It's typical to have the range of a variable over time fill the vertical space in a graph. It's easier to read, I think. You don't expand a vertical scale to go well beyond the range of observations. This is the way I see it done with stock prices and everything else.

As to the "flat line" graph that you posted. Is that how you present YOUR data? (All the white space and almost no information on the dependent variable?) Would you chart a patient's temperature on a 32 to 200 degree scale. ("Gee, that 105 fever isn't much above 98 from what I can see.")

And it's still a 1 degree Celsius increase. You aren't denying it, are you?
Its totally manipulation. Wouldn't you agree that 0-100 is a range of normal temps on Earth? They are making it look like temps rose 100% from 0 to 1 from 1960-2020 when they actually only went from 14 to 15 from 1940 to 2020 which is a 6% increase in 80 years.
The earth's climate has been changing for a billion years. it would be impossible for it NOT to be changing. Remember the dinosaurs? You think our climate was the same now as it was then? Oh, it's called climate change. Oh, then we had an Ice Age. That's called climate change. What if there was another Ice Ace looming? What, do people actually believe we could stop it? "Oh, if only AOC could come up with some legislation that would stop it!" Her solution? Let's give Boeing a trillion dollars to build huge heaters. That's all any of this is about - money. Again - anyone with half a brain has figured this out. The bullshit "global warming' narrative fell flat. Next up? Oh, let's just rebrand it into Climate Change. The utter absurdity that people believe we have control over that. Jesus H Christ are people really this fucking stupid? Politicians believe you are.

It's a sham and the latest distraction. You either understand that, your head is buried in the sand, or you are a politician/corporation looking to exploit it for financial gain. There is no other option.

I laugh about how it's no longer "global warming! ohhhhhhh myyy gawwwwwwwd!" and now suddenly it's the more vague "climate change" I seriously cannot believe anyone is so clueless and naive that they don't see this nonsense for what it is. What happened to the 'It's all over in ten years if we don't fix it?" nonsense? Wasn't that AOC's big claim? So... what changed? What changed is people called bullshit - so they just try another angle. Wake the fuck up. It's painful to watch/read people's absolute staggering cluelessness on display.

We all know what's causing climate change - racism. That's the next phase in this campaign of sheer stupidity. "hey we all know those dino's were super racist!"

You know what stupid people and death have in common? They're only painful for everyone else.
Last edited by auroraave on Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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D-train
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by D-train » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:46 pm

Yep calling it Climate change means they can go crazy whether temps go up OR down. Their worst fear is they won't change at all which of course will never happen.

And its win win for them. In 20 years when there are no catastrophes they can say, "See all of our efforts paid off" Us libs saved the world! LOL
dt

auroraave
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by auroraave » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:52 pm

D-train wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:46 pm
Yep calling it Climate change means they can go crazy whether temps go up OR down. Their worst fear is they won't change at all which of course will never happen.

And its win win for them. In 20 years when there are no catastrophes they can say, "See all of our efforts paid off" Us libs saved the world! LOL

Seriously - I have a hard time believing people are really this stupid - and I am not even kinda joking. How anyone cannot do the math here - starting with the BLATANT changing of the failed "global warming' narrative to 'climate change' version - and then when you simply factor in the indisputable FACT the earth has been in a permanent state of change since it's inception - my brain hurts trying to understand how people are this stupid that they can't see it. Has no one ever read a book? Taken a history class? Used a single shred of common sense and critical thinking? Oh, the earth has been changing for the last hundred years it must be climate change - YEAH - IT'S A PART OF THE BILLION YEAR CLIMATE CHANGE that has been going on.

Astonishing how gullible some people are.

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:31 pm

You know, I did start this sub-thread by saying that I agree with some "left wing" ideas like caring about the environment, and several people said something like "I hate it when people say conservatives don't care about the environment." I think a few of the recent comments feed that stereotype. I thought there might be a more engaged discussion rather than simply denying and casting aspersions at anyone who has a different opinion.

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:34 pm

D-train wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:26 pm
gil wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:54 pm
D-train wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm
Love how they scale these graphs to make it look like temps are just SKYROCKETING when it has actually gone up 1 degree Celsius in 40 years.

Here is what the graph looks like with a normal scale. The average temp on earth is 57 degrees or 14 C. Here it is with the scale going from 0-100 Fahrenheit or 38 to -17 Celsius. Not quite as dramatic is it. Now you know how these scientists/propaganda gurus push the narrative by manipulating how they present the data. Of course almost nobody questions it.

temp.JPG
I don't know why you call it manipulation, dt. It's typical to have the range of a variable over time fill the vertical space in a graph. It's easier to read, I think. You don't expand a vertical scale to go well beyond the range of observations. This is the way I see it done with stock prices and everything else.

As to the "flat line" graph that you posted. Is that how you present YOUR data? (All the white space and almost no information on the dependent variable?) Would you chart a patient's temperature on a 32 to 200 degree scale. ("Gee, that 105 fever isn't much above 98 from what I can see.")

And it's still a 1 degree Celsius increase. You aren't denying it, are you?
Its totally manipulation. Wouldn't you agree that 0-100 is a range of normal temps on Earth? They are making it look like temps rose 100% from 0 to 1 from 1960-2020 when they actually only went from 14 to 15 from 1940 to 2020 which is a 6% increase in 80 years.
Yes if we looking at daily temperature. No when we are looking at average temperatures world wide. If we had yearly averages of 0 or 100, then sure, use the bigger scale like you posted.

BaseHitDerby
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by BaseHitDerby » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:50 am

Average temperature (*C) by decade:

1980s - 14.18
1990s - 14.31
2000s - 14.51

The standard deviation is only 0.166 *C across 3 decades which is a very small amount. Climate change is a political tool to gain power. Don't fall for it.

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:00 am

gil wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:20 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:10 pm
The Earth's axis of rotation wobbles.

One wobble involves the axis (relative to space)on a 26,000 year cycle where it moves along an angular radius of 23.4 degrees..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

There are also changes in the location of the axis relative to fixed points on Earth's surface which have periods of one year and 433 days..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_wobble

There are other smaller deviations in the axis described here..
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasa-stud ... ling-earth
Interesting stuff. But does it explain increased temperature on a world-wide scale? Change in the axis of rotation would seem to make some places warmer and others cooler (not an overall increase in temperature).
The tilt and wobble of the axis are two causes of large-scale climate trends such as ice ages, along with orbital variations due to the pull of Jupiter which are on a 96k year cycle.
gil wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:20 pm
As to distance from the sun:
At different times of the year, the Earth either moves closer or farther away from the Sun. At perihelion, the Earth’s closest distance to the Sun, the distance between the Sun and the Earth is 91.4 million miles. The Earth is closest to the Sun in early January. At aphelion, when the Earth is furthest to the Sun, the distance between them is about 94.5 million miles. The Earth is furthest from the Sun in early July. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/how ... e-sun.html
Obviously this would suggest that the average temperature in January is warmer than in July.
That is just the current arrangement. The Earth's orbit varies from near-circular to elliptical over a cycle with a long time span of tens of thousands of years. I'm not sure if the figures you quoted are nearer to the circular extreme or the elliptical extreme of this cycle.
gil wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:20 pm
Again, I understand that these phenomena exist and I understand that there is natural variation and things must be looked at over time. One heat wave or one rainy month do not prove anything. But there is pretty strong evidence of increased temperatures, and I don't know of an explanation that is better than increased carbon dioxide concentration.
Yes, there is a correlation between atmospheric CO2 levels and average global temperature but it isn't clear with regard to causality. For instance, when oceans are shallower due to more land ice they lock up more CO2 and when they are deeper due to melting ice they circulate more and release CO2. Also, other gases like methane seem to have a greater impact. I agree though that continuing to pump carbon dioxide into the air at this rate is unwise if not dangerous for the long term, but the only practical alternative to burning fossil fuels currently is nuclear power.

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ddraig
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by ddraig » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:30 pm

"Historical records of solar activity indicate that solar radiation has been increasing since the late 19th century. If a trend, comparable to the one found in this study, persisted throughout the 20th century, it would have provided a significant component of the global warming the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports to have occurred over the past 100 years..."
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/ne ... iance.html

Little known fact that the surface temps on all of the planets have been increasing for decades. Now I'm not a scientist, nor a statician, but I don't think coal fired electrical plants on Saturn are the cause of climate change there. Nor is the increased Martian population a cause of climate change on Mars. But how about those Venusian SUV's? Oh, wait.

Are the wild fires we've seen over the past few decades here in the West due to an increase in surface temperatures or horrific forest management that does not allow for the removal of dead trees, etc., on forest floors? Sadly, I think it the latter. Good intentions gone awry. But can we fix the situation? Yes, however it means changing the current, PC political climate. (Pun intended.)

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