Seattle is Lost

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:44 pm

Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:00 pm
We need to protect this planet we call home. It falls into the same category as protecting the home we live in. That doesn't mean we need to be so "Nazi" about it. A very practical requirements will keep it good.

In the 1970's it was "Global Cooling".
In the 1990's it was "Global Warming".
Around 2005 they relabeled it again because too many people debunked it to "Climate Change".

Climate change has been happening for 1000's of years. The Sahara was once a lush beautiful area.....its now a desert. That wasn't caused by cow farts.

In the mid-evil years, Europe had a mini-ice age:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

This planet can be affected by nature and humans. Cows, uncontrolled, will decimate an area by eating to the ground, thus causing erosion when the rains hit. Nature can throw another asteroid at us and wipe out the planet, but given time it will recover.

As stated previously, what is anyone doing about China's o2 outputs to the environment? They don't see to be worried. Neither does Russia, India or many of the other Asian countries. Is that because the Asian countries are mostly dictators and communist so they don't have to worry about gaining money and power. I the need for a disaster only an American and European concept, or is it about the 'freedoms' we appreciate here and Europe.
Yes, as I understand it you are absolutely right about natural climate variation. And the Little Ice Age affected North America too. (I believe that most or all of our Washington glaciers are from that time, not from the "big" ices ages 10s of thousands of years ago.)

But the two facts that sway me to be concerned about greenhouse gasses: [1] historically, over close to a million years (measured in ice core samples in Greenland, I believe), there is a VERY strong correlation between carbon dioxide concentrations and global temperature, and good evidence that the carbon dioxide concentration is the driver of temperature, [2] We now have higher CO2 levels than anytime during that 800,000 year period. Probably CO2 has not been this high since 2 million years ago, when
trees grew near the South Pole and sea levels were 50 to 65 feet higher than today https://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/ ... on-dioxide
To me that is a good argument that we are in for increasing temperatures over at least the nexts century, and the impacts of this.

Not to sound harsh, but while I care about the planet, it can take care of itself. Trees in Antartica or 50 foot higher sea levels? The Earth will survive just fine. Don't worry about it. I'm concerned about the effects on people. Sea level rise displacing millions of people. Higher temperatures and longer dry summers affecting agriculture and food supplies. Etc.

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:54 pm

bpj wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:56 pm
The Earth has a different tilt than it did 30 years ago.
I did not know this and could not find a reference. Can you post a reference to this? Thanks!

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:10 pm

The Earth's axis of rotation wobbles.

One wobble involves the axis (relative to space)on a 26,000 year cycle where it moves along an angular radius of 23.4 degrees..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

There are also changes in the location of the axis relative to fixed points on Earth's surface which have periods of one year and 433 days..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_wobble

There are other smaller deviations in the axis described here..
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasa-stud ... ling-earth

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:15 pm

gil wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:28 pm
Just another moderate nut job criticizing China
That's great but where is the political pressure from world governments and where is the left-dominated media who are obsessed with blaming (and punishing) America?

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bpj
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by bpj » Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:34 pm

gil wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:54 pm
bpj wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:56 pm
The Earth has a different tilt than it did 30 years ago.
I did not know this and could not find a reference. Can you post a reference to this? Thanks!
On top of what Sibelius said, the Earth is not always equidistant from the sun either which is a perfectly natural explanation for "climate change" because the climates literally change as a result.

As we hurtle through space there are times where we are closer or farther from the sun causing naturally changing temperatures at that point in time, especially over long periods of time. Small changes have not so small results.

Just because it's July doesn't mean the weather is going to be anything like what July was 30 years ago because we're at a different point in space relative to the sun.

The seasons now happen about a month later in my hometown than they did when I was a kid.

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D-train
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by D-train » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:02 pm

bpj wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:34 pm
gil wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:54 pm
bpj wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:56 pm
The Earth has a different tilt than it did 30 years ago.
I did not know this and could not find a reference. Can you post a reference to this? Thanks!
On top of what Sibelius said, the Earth is not always equidistant from the sun either which is a perfectly natural explanation for "climate change" because the climates literally change as a result.

As we hurtle through space there are times where we are closer or farther from the sun causing naturally changing temperatures at that point in time, especially over long periods of time. Small changes have not so small results.

Just because it's July doesn't mean the weather is going to be anything like what July was 30 years ago because we're at a different point in space relative to the sun.

The seasons now happen about a month later in my hometown than they did when I was a kid.
Had the most rain this Month in Boston on record.
dt

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bpj
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by bpj » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:11 pm

D-train wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:02 pm
bpj wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:34 pm
gil wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:54 pm


I did not know this and could not find a reference. Can you post a reference to this? Thanks!
On top of what Sibelius said, the Earth is not always equidistant from the sun either which is a perfectly natural explanation for "climate change" because the climates literally change as a result.

As we hurtle through space there are times where we are closer or farther from the sun causing naturally changing temperatures at that point in time, especially over long periods of time. Small changes have not so small results.

Just because it's July doesn't mean the weather is going to be anything like what July was 30 years ago because we're at a different point in space relative to the sun.

The seasons now happen about a month later in my hometown than they did when I was a kid.
Had the most rain this Month in Boston on record.
Imagine when all that water meets with the melting polar ice caps. Catastrophe.

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:20 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:10 pm
The Earth's axis of rotation wobbles.

One wobble involves the axis (relative to space)on a 26,000 year cycle where it moves along an angular radius of 23.4 degrees..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

There are also changes in the location of the axis relative to fixed points on Earth's surface which have periods of one year and 433 days..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_wobble

There are other smaller deviations in the axis described here..
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasa-stud ... ling-earth
Interesting stuff. But does it explain increased temperature on a world-wide scale? Change in the axis of rotation would seem to make some places warmer and others cooler (not an overall increase in temperature).

As to distance from the sun:
At different times of the year, the Earth either moves closer or farther away from the Sun. At perihelion, the Earth’s closest distance to the Sun, the distance between the Sun and the Earth is 91.4 million miles. The Earth is closest to the Sun in early January. At aphelion, when the Earth is furthest to the Sun, the distance between them is about 94.5 million miles. The Earth is furthest from the Sun in early July. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/how ... e-sun.html
Obviously this would suggest that the average temperature in January is warmer than in July.

Again, I understand that these phenomena exist and I understand that there is natural variation and things must be looked at over time. One heat wave or one rainy month do not prove anything. But there is pretty strong evidence of increased temperatures, and I don't know of an explanation that is better than increased carbon dioxide concentration.
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D-train
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by D-train » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm

Love how they scale these graphs to make it look like temps are just SKYROCKETING when it has actually gone up 1 degree Celsius in 40 years.

Here is what the graph looks like with a normal scale. The average temp on earth is 57 degrees or 14 C. Here it is with the scale going from 0-100 Fahrenheit or 38 to -17 Celsius. Not quite as dramatic is it. Now you know how these scientists/propaganda gurus push the narrative by manipulating how they present the data. Of course almost nobody questions it.
temp.JPG
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dt

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:54 pm

D-train wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm
Love how they scale these graphs to make it look like temps are just SKYROCKETING when it has actually gone up 1 degree Celsius in 40 years.

Here is what the graph looks like with a normal scale. The average temp on earth is 57 degrees or 14 C. Here it is with the scale going from 0-100 Fahrenheit or 38 to -17 Celsius. Not quite as dramatic is it. Now you know how these scientists/propaganda gurus push the narrative by manipulating how they present the data. Of course almost nobody questions it.

temp.JPG
I don't know why you call it manipulation, dt. It's typical to have the range of a variable over time fill the vertical space in a graph. It's easier to read, I think. You don't expand a vertical scale to go well beyond the range of observations. This is the way I see it done with stock prices and everything else.

As to the "flat line" graph that you posted. Is that how you present YOUR data? (All the white space and almost no information on the dependent variable?) Would you chart a patient's temperature on a 32 to 200 degree scale. ("Gee, that 105 fever isn't much above 98 from what I can see.")

And it's still a 1 degree Celsius increase. You aren't denying it, are you?

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