Sibelius Hindemith wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:00 pm
gil wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:27 pm
So in summary ...
Changing global temperatures are caused by a lot of things, and carbon dioxide concentration is not a major cause of increased temperatures.
Just to be clear, that isn't my view. I think it's unknown how much of an impact CO2 levels have on temperatures. There have been episodes of volcanoes pumping massive amounts of it into the atmosphere and i don't know what the short term impact of that was, but over the long term it is the orbital and solar fluctuations that have caused the cycles of ice ages and warm periods.
gil wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:27 pm
But if increased carbon dioxide contributes to increased temperatures, human activity didn't do it.
And even if human activity did do it, then it's China's fault.
I don't think anyone disputes that human actvity has caused CO2 levels to go up. Since that became widely understood, who has done more to address the situation, Western industrialized nations or "developing" nations such as China and India? And what have nations like Brazil and Malaysia done to address large-scale deforestation which is known to have an impact on climate patterns? I don't care about assigning blame, what matters is getting the nations that are contributing the most to the problem
currently to do their part in making any necessary sacrifices to address it.
Yes, I agree. I get pushback from people who say that Western nations grew rich by turning fossil fuels, and now developing nations should not be prevented from doing the same thing. In total (since the beginning of the industrial revolution), European nations had the most emissions until about 100 years ago, and now the United States is the highest. China has about 1/2 the total (since the beginning of the industrial revolution) emissions that the US does.
I think what we should be committing to is technologies that will allow growth with less fossil fuel use. China is doing this, Germany is doing this, and I hope the US gets it together and leads the world in this.
I will point out that while China has the most emissions currently (by a lot!), their per capita emissions are lower than the US, Canada, Saudi Arabia, and some others. Having 18% (I think that is close) of the world's population makes your absolute numbers higher.