Seattle is Lost

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:14 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:51 am
gil wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:53 pm
OK here goes: some parts on the left are good (pro-environment, expand health care access, make it easier for non-citizens to vote);
You don't think people on the right are pro-environment? You're getting "greedy, corrupt, soul-less industrialists" confused with everyday conservatives. Also, i fixed your typo but i would disagree that it's a good thing.
I know a few people on the right who are pro-environment, but in general, in my view it's a left wing/progressive cause at this point. It shouldn't be. There *used* to be a lot more pro-environment conservatives, but like other things, it has become ridiculously politicized (e.g., climate change denialism; not caring about water and air pollution, etc.)

That is funny (your fixing my typo). I didn't know that was anyone's platform. It is an accusation that is out there, obviously, but I would not support that. Make it easier for citizen's/legal voters to vote. Or maybe that is another one of those middle of the road ideas. :)

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:40 pm

gil wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:14 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:51 am
gil wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:53 pm
OK here goes: some parts on the left are good (pro-environment, expand health care access, make it easier for non-citizens to vote);
You don't think people on the right are pro-environment? You're getting "greedy, corrupt, soul-less industrialists" confused with everyday conservatives. Also, i fixed your typo but i would disagree that it's a good thing.
I know a few people on the right who are pro-environment, but in general, in my view it's a left wing/progressive cause at this point. It shouldn't be. There *used* to be a lot more pro-environment conservatives, but like other things, it has become ridiculously politicized (e.g., climate change denialism; not caring about water and air pollution, etc.)

That is funny (your fixing my typo). I didn't know that was anyone's platform. It is an accusation that is out there, obviously, but I would not support that. Make it easier for citizen's/legal voters to vote. Or maybe that is another one of those middle of the road ideas. :)
It's funny because "The Right" does care about the environment. But the left has seriously turned it into more than a political issue and it really pisses us off.

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D-train
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by D-train » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:50 am

Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:40 pm
gil wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:14 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:51 am


You don't think people on the right are pro-environment? You're getting "greedy, corrupt, soul-less industrialists" confused with everyday conservatives. Also, i fixed your typo but i would disagree that it's a good thing.
I know a few people on the right who are pro-environment, but in general, in my view it's a left wing/progressive cause at this point. It shouldn't be. There *used* to be a lot more pro-environment conservatives, but like other things, it has become ridiculously politicized (e.g., climate change denialism; not caring about water and air pollution, etc.)

That is funny (your fixing my typo). I didn't know that was anyone's platform. It is an accusation that is out there, obviously, but I would not support that. Make it easier for citizen's/legal voters to vote. Or maybe that is another one of those middle of the road ideas. :)
It's funny because "The Right" does care about the environment. But the left has seriously turned it into more than a political issue and it really pisses us off.
Exactly.
dt

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:44 pm

D-train wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:50 am
Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:40 pm
gil wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:14 pm


I know a few people on the right who are pro-environment, but in general, in my view it's a left wing/progressive cause at this point. It shouldn't be. There *used* to be a lot more pro-environment conservatives, but like other things, it has become ridiculously politicized (e.g., climate change denialism; not caring about water and air pollution, etc.)

That is funny (your fixing my typo). I didn't know that was anyone's platform. It is an accusation that is out there, obviously, but I would not support that. Make it easier for citizen's/legal voters to vote. Or maybe that is another one of those middle of the road ideas. :)
It's funny because "The Right" does care about the environment. But the left has seriously turned it into more than a political issue and it really pisses us off.
Exactly.
I'd love to hear your (conservative) viewpoints on this. I don't consider myself a leftist, but I am an environmentalist. It seems to me that many on the right want, at best, free market solutions to environmental problems. In my mind that is problematical because most environmental problems stem from market failures. I know people who say they are pro environment, but that isn't as important as economic growth or keeping gas prices low. (I think the growth vs environment argument is a red herring.) And of course, there are the people on the right who are denying the existence of various environmental problems. Anyway, let's say the left just went away. What would be the conservative/right approach to environmental issues like climate change, protecting drinking water, and clean air?

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bpj
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by bpj » Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:56 pm

Climate change = climates change. The Earth has a different tilt than it did 30 years ago. The rest is muppetry.

The other two are probably at least a little more worthwhile causes that need some help with regulation.

auroraave
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by auroraave » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:11 pm

gil wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:44 pm
D-train wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:50 am
Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:40 pm

It's funny because "The Right" does care about the environment. But the left has seriously turned it into more than a political issue and it really pisses us off.
Exactly.
I'd love to hear your (conservative) viewpoints on this. I don't consider myself a leftist, but I am an environmentalist. It seems to me that many on the right want, at best, free market solutions to environmental problems. In my mind that is problematical because most environmental problems stem from market failures. I know people who say they are pro environment, but that isn't as important as economic growth or keeping gas prices low. (I think the growth vs environment argument is a red herring.) And of course, there are the people on the right who are denying the existence of various environmental problems. Anyway, let's say the left just went away. What would be the conservative/right approach to environmental issues like climate change, protecting drinking water, and clean air?
The first thing you need to do is eliminate 'climate change' as 'a thing'. It's not. It never has been and it never will be. It's purely political nonsense - likely driven by the next narrative-driven nonsense designed to take your money away and give it to someone else via the ridiculous 'new green deal' morons like AOC try to sell - not because it makes any sense at all (it doesn't), but because it gives her personal political clout and that = power.

Want proof? Remember just few years ago the rallying cry was "ohhhhh my gawwwwd - global warming!" Well, whatever happened to that? It was literally 'rebranded' into climate change. Dude, this shit is a charade. The people preaching it don't even believe it. So, did 'global warming' just miraculously stop? It's political nonsense used to distract you.

I read an article a while back that predicted this would be the next 'narrative' thrust upon us - and if you see headlines and narratives in the media - that is exactly what is happening. It's all patterns. I think I even saw Harris blaming the border crisis on 'climate change' not because that's true - but because it's an opportunity to push the (phony) narrative. Here are some narratives shoved on us... Trump, Racism, global warming, white privilege, vaccines, terrorism, George Floyd, hands up don't shoot, White Supremacy, voter suppression, UFO's... the list goes on and on and on and on. It's NOT REAL.

Take it a step further - use your own common sense and logic in this... the planet is always in a stage of change - there are always fluctuations in temperatures - it would be weird - and mathematically impossible if there wasn't. 10,000 years ago we have an Ice Age - in all likelihood there will be another one. Does anyone actually think we have the power to control this? That is fucking absurd. The earth is always in a state of flux - that is inevitable.

Again - explain how the 'global warming' narrative just magically disappeared. Well, because too many non politicians debunked it so they LITERALLY 'rebranded" the same fucking bogus narrative to keep you scared and locked onto CNN to distract you while politicians are enriching themselves by picking your pockets. C'mon man, haven't we figured this out yet? From 'global warming' to 'climate change'. IT'S MARKETING.

As if we have ANY control over how the earth operates. It's laughable. You want to make earth better? Get rid of the real problem - humans. Don't worry, we'll wipe ourselves out. We're clueless creatures who think we have control over the climate. Next up; we can control hurricanes!

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:33 pm

auroraave wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:11 pm
gil wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:44 pm
D-train wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:50 am


Exactly.
I'd love to hear your (conservative) viewpoints on this. I don't consider myself a leftist, but I am an environmentalist. It seems to me that many on the right want, at best, free market solutions to environmental problems. In my mind that is problematical because most environmental problems stem from market failures. I know people who say they are pro environment, but that isn't as important as economic growth or keeping gas prices low. (I think the growth vs environment argument is a red herring.) And of course, there are the people on the right who are denying the existence of various environmental problems. Anyway, let's say the left just went away. What would be the conservative/right approach to environmental issues like climate change, protecting drinking water, and clean air?
The first thing you need to do is eliminate 'climate change' as 'a thing'. It's not. It never has been and it never will be. It's purely political nonsense - likely driven by the next narrative-driven nonsense designed to take your money away and give it to someone else via the ridiculous 'new green deal' morons like AOC try to sell - not because it makes any sense at all (it doesn't), but because it gives her personal political clout and that = power.

Want proof? Remember just few years ago the rallying cry was "ohhhhh my gawwwwd - global warming!" Well, whatever happened to that? It was literally 'rebranded' into climate change. Dude, this shit is a charade. The people preaching it don't even believe it. So, did 'global warming' just miraculously stop? It's political nonsense used to distract you.

I read an article a while back that predicted this would be the next 'narrative' thrust upon us - and if you see headlines and narratives in the media - that is exactly what is happening. It's all patterns. I think I even saw Harris blaming the border crisis on 'climate change' not because that's true - but because it's an opportunity to push the (phony) narrative. Here are some narratives shoved on us... Trump, Racism, global warming, white privilege, vaccines, terrorism, George Floyd, hands up don't shoot, White Supremacy, voter suppression, UFO's... the list goes on and on and on and on. It's NOT REAL.

Take it a step further - use your own common sense and logic in this... the planet is always in a stage of change - there are always fluctuations in temperatures - it would be weird - and mathematically impossible if there wasn't. 10,000 years ago we have an Ice Age - in all likelihood there will be another one. Does anyone actually think we have the power to control this? That is fucking absurd. The earth is always in a state of flux - that is inevitable.

Again - explain how the 'global warming' narrative just magically disappeared. Well, because too many non politicians debunked it so they LITERALLY 'rebranded" the same fucking bogus narrative to keep you scared and locked onto CNN to distract you while politicians are enriching themselves by picking your pockets. C'mon man, haven't we figured this out yet? From 'global warming' to 'climate change'. IT'S MARKETING.

As if we have ANY control over how the earth operates. It's laughable. You want to make earth better? Get rid of the real problem - humans. Don't worry, we'll wipe ourselves out. We're clueless creatures who think we have control over the climate. Next up; we can control hurricanes!
Call it what you want, but average temperatures across the world have gone up. "Global warming" would be fine with me, but I think some people pointed out that the effects may not be uniform (e.g., the arctic is warming much more than the American southeast).

I really dislike the arguments that specific weather events were "caused" by climate change, or that other phenomena (migration, as you point out) were "caused" by climate change. That is lazy and sloppy thinking.

As to narratives, I'm not going to argue for or against all of them. But I think there is good scientific evidence (i.e., not simply "marketing"). I really did just want to hear a conservative take or two on caring about the environment.

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:44 pm

It's interesting that virtually no-one on the left ever calls out China, by far the biggest polluter and CO2 emitter on the planet, just like they never call out the treatment of women and gays in the Muslim world. If I recall correctly, that silly accord that Obama signed on to and Trump withdrew from didn't require China to do a bloody thing to curb their emissions until something like 2050. But I thought we were going to reach the point of no return in less than 10 years, right?

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:00 pm

We need to protect this planet we call home. It falls into the same category as protecting the home we live in. That doesn't mean we need to be so "Nazi" about it. A very practical requirements will keep it good.

In the 1970's it was "Global Cooling".
In the 1990's it was "Global Warming".
Around 2005 they relabeled it again because too many people debunked it to "Climate Change".

Climate change has been happening for 1000's of years. The Sahara was once a lush beautiful area.....its now a desert. That wasn't caused by cow farts.

In the mid-evil years, Europe had a mini-ice age:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

This planet can be affected by nature and humans. Cows, uncontrolled, will decimate an area by eating to the ground, thus causing erosion when the rains hit. Nature can throw another asteroid at us and wipe out the planet, but given time it will recover.

As stated previously, what is anyone doing about China's o2 outputs to the environment? They don't see to be worried. Neither does Russia, India or many of the other Asian countries. Is that because the Asian countries are mostly dictators and communist so they don't have to worry about gaining money and power. I the need for a disaster only an American and European concept, or is it about the 'freedoms' we appreciate here and Europe.

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gil
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Re: Seattle is Lost

Post by gil » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:28 pm

Just another moderate nut job criticizing China
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