Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

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D-train
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by D-train » Fri May 06, 2022 11:02 am

gil wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:45 pm
D-train wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 9:29 pm
gil wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 7:22 pm
I've always struggled with abortion because of the competing moral/ethical imperatives. But really, how many people have abortion parties? The women I know who have talked about having abortions have found it traumatizing, not something to celebrate.

How many people really are in favor of abortions just a few days before birth? I doubt there are many. And yes, I'm sure you can find some idiot or some fringe group who says so, but they are FAR from a significant percentage of the population. I know some people who are pretty far left for my taste (and I say that relating I am pretty far left for most of the people here) and I know literally no one who favors "last minute" abortions.

I think many of us (both left and right) have a problem where we see some radical fringe comment, and then attribute that viewpoint to hundreds of millions of people.

I'm generally pro-choice, but (1) I think there should be limits on later term abortions and (2) I get and respect the absolutist position if it has a moral/religious basis: No abortions under any circumstances, including rape or incest or life of the mother. But once exceptions are allowed, then we are in a moral gray area. Is the mother's life less important than the life of a fetus? Does a woman have an obligation to give birth to a baby that resulted from being raped by her uncle? Or is a fertilized egg more important in the eyes of God than anything else?

I don't know how many, but I do realize there are abortions done because of severe fetal deformity. Is this a good idea? The ultrasound to check on these kinds of defects can't be performed until the 2nd trimester, from what I have read.
I am generally pro abortion as well. I just can't stand the euphemism's and hypocrisy. It's not Women's healthcare. Just be honest, "I believe that I and this baby are better off if it isn't born" How f-ing tough is that? I can respect that.

But don't passionately fight to kill fetuses and then lose your shit because some illegal kid get separated from their parents for A FEW WEEKs when the mother knows full well that is going to happen. Its asinine.
If it involves internal organs and hormones, I don't know why you wouldn't consider it "healthcare". Are you saying that anything "elective" is not healthcare?

Who the f "passionately fights to kiss fetuses"??? That is just misleading.
Healthcare is needed when you are sick, injured or have a disease. Pregnancy is not that. Are you trying to be intentionally obtuse?

This is who:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro+cho ... =937&dpr=1
dt

Mel Bradford
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by Mel Bradford » Fri May 06, 2022 12:58 pm

....quietly President Trump and Majority leader O'Connell installed the judicial strength to put Roe on the ash heap. The 'right to privacy' constructed by Justice Goldberg, using the most imaginative use of the Bill of Rights in all of time and that lead to Roe under Justice Blackmun majority opinion is about to finally see the light of day...after 50 years. The Dems, in all their entitled post modernism.....didn't see it coming.

In one of the subtle ironies among the Court watchers Justice Breyer, now replaced by Brown Jackson, was a law clerk under Goldberg. In the twilight of his life he gets to witness the deconstruction of a 50 year judicial lie that was akin to removing guard rails from highways in all 50 states.

Essentially the Court is preparing to do what Congress could have done with simple legislation....return the matter to the states. If the aged Vultures of the Demonic party want to derail the effect of the case, they can try to pass universal abortion legislation. Not gonna happen.

auroraave
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by auroraave » Fri May 06, 2022 1:35 pm

Mel Bradford wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:58 pm
....quietly President Trump and Majority leader O'Connell installed the judicial strength to put Roe on the ash heap. The 'right to privacy' constructed by Justice Goldberg, using the most imaginative use of the Bill of Rights in all of time and that lead to Roe under Justice Blackmun majority opinion is about to finally see the light of day...after 50 years. The Dems, in all their entitled post modernism.....didn't see it coming.

In one of the subtle ironies among the Court watchers Justice Breyer, now replaced by Brown Jackson, was a law clerk under Goldberg. In the twilight of his life he gets to witness the deconstruction of a 50 year judicial lie that was akin to removing guard rails from highways in all 50 states.

Essentially the Court is preparing to do what Congress could have done with simple legislation....return the matter to the states. If the aged Vultures of the Demonic party want to derail the effect of the case, they can try to pass universal abortion legislation. Not gonna happen.
Oh, man, I am so supportive of it returning to the states. The feds should not be legislating it. Let the states handle their own business. The feds have WAY over expanded their reach in our lives - it's time for states to take back their sovereignty.

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gil
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by gil » Fri May 06, 2022 6:28 pm

D-train wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 11:02 am
gil wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:45 pm
D-train wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 9:29 pm


I am generally pro abortion as well. I just can't stand the euphemism's and hypocrisy. It's not Women's healthcare. Just be honest, "I believe that I and this baby are better off if it isn't born" How f-ing tough is that? I can respect that.

But don't passionately fight to kill fetuses and then lose your shit because some illegal kid get separated from their parents for A FEW WEEKs when the mother knows full well that is going to happen. Its asinine.
If it involves internal organs and hormones, I don't know why you wouldn't consider it "healthcare". Are you saying that anything "elective" is not healthcare?

Who the f "passionately fights to kiss fetuses"??? That is just misleading.
Healthcare is needed when you are sick, injured or have a disease. Pregnancy is not that. Are you trying to be intentionally obtuse?

This is who:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro+cho ... =937&dpr=1
Not really, but honestly, you took me by surprise saying that abortion is not healthcare. I see the logic, but I also think it's interesting to do a quick internet search and see all these right wing sites staying that abortion is not health care.

By your definition, is treating a pregnancy health care? Is "preventative care" (i.e., testing when there are no symptoms; optimizing diet and exercise) health care?

You are just showing people who want to preserve a woman's choice. Saying they are passionately fighting to kill fetuses is still misleading.

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bpj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by bpj » Fri May 06, 2022 7:17 pm

There's something wrong with libs brains.

"Sucking out the brains of a baby in a healthy pregnancy is healthcare because she doesnt want to deal with the consequences of having unptotected sex"....

It's the opposite of healthcare. It's deathcare. It's murder.

auroraave
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by auroraave » Fri May 06, 2022 9:41 pm

bpj wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 7:17 pm
There's something wrong with libs brains.

"Sucking out the brains of a baby in a healthy pregnancy is healthcare because she doesnt want to deal with the consequences of having unptotected sex"....

It's the opposite of healthcare. It's deathcare. It's murder.
You have already admitted on here that abortion is a logical choice in situations. I see too many posts that are full of exaggerations, hyperbole, and emotion - none of which trumps the fact that abortion is a necessary choice at times, and by your own words you acknowledge that. Therefore, by your own words, you support murder. Right? You just painted yourself into that corner, right? You can't argue it both ways. "It's okay, except for when I disagree with it..." isn't a policy, it's what the Left does.

Also, you should really stop with the "lib brains" broad strokes painting of the issue. I am an independent moderate - not a liberal. The over-the-top rhetoric and stereotyping is EXACTLY what CNN, MCNBC do and they have no credibility. When you sink to doing what they do - you have already lost the argument. We have established abortion is a necessary choice - outside of that, what you seem to be in favor of is legislating morality. Go look at the Middle East to see how that has worked out. You can't legislate morality. That's a fundamental aspect of freedom. People do stupid shit and you can't legislate stupidity away, unfortunately. Most states already have time limits on abortions. I don't understand what the problem here is. As for the "can't use abortion as a birth control" argument - see my comment about legislating morality. It doesn't work. I agree it shouldn't be, but people have to make their own choices.

This is not a dem/rep/left/right issue - they just use it to (predictably) whip up their base and gain support - it's a common sense issue and needs to be treated as such. I would bet money that Trump is secretly pro-choice - he is a life long dem at heart - but he can't tell his base that.

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bpj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by bpj » Fri May 06, 2022 11:25 pm

auroraave wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 9:41 pm
bpj wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 7:17 pm
There's something wrong with libs brains.

"Sucking out the brains of a baby in a healthy pregnancy is healthcare because she doesnt want to deal with the consequences of having unptotected sex"....

It's the opposite of healthcare. It's deathcare. It's murder.
You have already admitted on here that abortion is a logical choice in situations. I see too many posts that are full of exaggerations, hyperbole, and emotion - none of which trumps the fact that abortion is a necessary choice at times, and by your own words you acknowledge that. Therefore, by your own words, you support murder. Right? You just painted yourself into that corner, right? You can't argue it both ways. "It's okay, except for when I disagree with it..." isn't a policy, it's what the Left does.

Also, you should really stop with the "lib brains" broad strokes painting of the issue. I am an independent moderate - not a liberal. The over-the-top rhetoric and stereotyping is EXACTLY what CNN, MCNBC do and they have no credibility. When you sink to doing what they do - you have already lost the argument. We have established abortion is a necessary choice - outside of that, what you seem to be in favor of is legislating morality. Go look at the Middle East to see how that has worked out. You can't legislate morality. That's a fundamental aspect of freedom. People do stupid shit and you can't legislate stupidity away, unfortunately. Most states already have time limits on abortions. I don't understand what the problem here is. As for the "can't use abortion as a birth control" argument - see my comment about legislating morality. It doesn't work. I agree it shouldn't be, but people have to make their own choices.

This is not a dem/rep/left/right issue - they just use it to (predictably) whip up their base and gain support - it's a common sense issue and needs to be treated as such. I would bet money that Trump is secretly pro-choice - he is a life long dem at heart - but he can't tell his base that.
Oof. Very poor take.

I don't support abortion at all, but realize it's not going to just go away.

Where I draw the line is when the woman gets pregnant due to her own choices.

If she's raped, resulting in a pregnancy she did not have any free will with creating, and did not bring on herself, is the only type of argument there should even be for having "the choice" of abortion available.

All other cases of abortion are brought on by the woman herself making poor choices to begin with. That's where the woman has a right to choose, not killing the baby after she already made her choice.

We do legislate morality saying we can't kill a 1 year old kid, or an adult. I have no problem extending that to the womb where anybody who has felt a baby moving inside of a mother knows that baby is alive in there.

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ddraig
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by ddraig » Sat May 07, 2022 1:58 am

The only states this will effect are those whose citizens are mostly pro-life. Those states that are pro-choice...nothing will change. I'm not a Constitutional Scholar, but in my opinion, this issue should have never been classified as a Federal Issue in the first place. According to the 10th Amendment, any issue not mentioned in the Constitution shall be reserved to the states and the people of that state.

As for this being a health issue, I think it is government overreach for government to be in the health care industry anyway. So putting the issue before State Legislatures, or as an Initiative to the voters of said state, is the correct decision. Let the voters decide. I'm not a fan of government fiat!

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D-train
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by D-train » Sat May 07, 2022 4:34 pm

dt

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Roe vs. Wade Overturned by Supreme Court

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Sat May 07, 2022 5:14 pm

Whatever happened to the "morning after" pill?
If she's raped, resulting in a pregnancy she did not have any free will with creating, and did not bring on herself, is the only type of argument there should even be for having "the choice" of abortion available.
Wouldn't that result in a number of pregnant women that wanted an abortion falsely claiming they were raped? What is wrong with having a time limit like 3 months (or whatever the amount of time before there could be a detectable heartbeat) and certainly long enough for someone to realize they are pregnant.

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