January 6th prime time shit show

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D-train
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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by D-train » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:10 pm

It is basically a weeks long political ad paid for by the tax payers when they should be focused on fixing the country which is VERY f-d up right now.
dt

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gil
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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by gil » Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:57 pm

auroraave wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:35 pm
gil wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:29 pm
ddraig wrote:
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:17 pm
Hutchinson stated in an email on February 1 that the J6 hearings were "BS." Then too, I saw the video of the Beast before it was pulling away. You can see hands on the back of the front seat, but you can't see who those hands were connected to or whose hands they were.

So why did Hutchinson decide to testify on something that was so much hearsay? She wasn't in the car and at best couldn't see in the vehicle. And she's not worried about perjury because if they brought her up on charges, she'd have to tell everyone who fed her this story. Adam Schiff? Liz Cheney?
I'm only seeing this (her calling the hearings BS) on sites that I consider pretty much right wing leaning. But doesn't it make sense? She is a Republican and served in the Trump administration. That position (the hearings are BS) is pretty much what everyone here (other than me) is saying, isn't it? I don't see why her saying that in a private text would be at all surprising.

It also makes sense that she only testified because she was subpoenaed. The texts I read on the daily caller website said she felt that she had to testify after she was served the subpoena. I mean, if I were a political operative and in her position, I'd feel that I had to tell the truth. But I would not stretch the truth or make things up in any way to be unfavorable to the party I worked for.

From what I heard of her testimony, Hutchinson was very clear what she saw firsthand and what she heard. She never testified that she was in or near the Presidential vehicle. She did testify about what people told her happened in the vehicle. She testified about conversations with Mark Meadows (Trump's Chief of Staff) as well as things she heard Trump say. These are not hearsay. I heard only part of the testimony, but I think the hearing was 2 hours and the vehicle thing (which I did hear live) was ... what, 1 minute of testimony?
So.... why didn't they subpoena the people she claimed to have heard these things from - and corroborate her 'testimony"? This is basic cross examination stuff here. She makes a claim - then they don't follow that up by asking the people directly? In what world would that ever happen? If this was a court - 100000000000% those people would be compelled to testify. The ONLY reason you would NOT call them is if you KNEW they would not corroborate it. Why would they NOT corroborate it? Because it's not true. In any real court, her testimony would be considered hearsay - period. "Oh, I heard this..." is not admissable, but you can get away with it in a congressional hearing - a perfect platform if you are trying to smear someone. Remember - NO ONE has ever been called to testify in support of Trump. Again, this would never happen in a real court.

This is where we get the "but she testified under oath!" The Secret Service agents would also be under oath - and they said they would be glad to testify - so - why not call them? Funny how only one side, one narrative, is heard in this "fair and unbiased" hearing. :lol:

It's the dagger to the heart of her hilarious "testimony" - NO ONE can corroborate it. If they could - they would issue a subpoena and compel them to. Any good litigator knows what the compellant will say - that's why you cross examine them. Clearly they know NO ONE will corroborate her story - UNDER OATH. ALL of her testimony is perfectly couched to allude to things, while not crossing into perjury with blatant lying - that's why she can use the "oh, I heard this...." which would never be admissable in a real court - hence why the Dems are doing it now - a game played on their turf where the opposition gets NO shot at rebuttal.

The fact I have to even point out something so basic and fundamental - is sad. No one can possibly be this obtuse.

I LOVE how it's all "right wing' sites when you don't like the content - meanwhile you are on record on here trying to sell Nancy Pelosi as 'trying to put together a fair and unbiased" committee in which only ONE side is heard and ALL members are anti Trump. You are literally regurgitating CNN/MSNBC talking points. You insult people's intelligence. You want to believe all this nonsense because you already do - you just want people to think you're unbiased so you can try to sell your positions as reasonable, but the problem is all your posts prove you aren't unbiased at all. That's fine - just stop with the sales pitch BS. It's embarrassing.

We will all wait with baited breath for you to answer the most basic and common sense question:
Why didn't they compel the SS agents to testify to corroborate her story?

My guess is you won't answer that - it blows your story apart - so you'll duck, dodge, deflect, change the convo, anything but use basic common sense to see this for what it is. It's cool, we get it.
Hey, first I think that whether Trump did something physical (i.e., beyond being angry) in the Presidential limo is minutiae. But it's lurid. People glom onto it because it's a shiny object. I don't freaking care.

Second, all of the "liberal news sites" like CNN and NYT and WaPost have been reporting that there are agents who dispute that. Fine. If anyone cares if this is true, bring them in. But I have read (same liberal sites) that the committee has interviewed the two people Hutchinson said told her about the incident. If they (the committee) has conflicting information, they shouldn't have asked Hutchinson to testify about this.

Third, I observe if every site reporting something leans one way or the other. So when I search for "hutchinson committee BS" (which I did because ddraig wrote that Hutchinson has called the committee BS, and I had not heard that) the search engine results are daily caller, ussanews, the gateway pundit. I think these qualify as right wing. I.e, I didn't see any MSM reporting it. Please correct me if I'm wrong about these sites. It's not a matter of whether I disagree with it. As I wrote before, I think it would be very likely that a Republican political appointee would have considered the committee BS.

Fourth, I wish there were cross examination, and I said this before, but aI also said that I want it to be evidence based, not ad hominem and not hollow talking points.

For me, what I am taking away from the testimony is
• a great number of people in the White House accepted the official results of the election (including the top officials in the Justice Department). Trump didn't accept the results, at least publicly, and increasingly isolated himself with people who would tell him that there was fraud and they could prove it (e.g., Rudy G. Eastman, Powell).

• Trump, Giulliani, and I assume others went to state election officials and/or Republican legislators to try to get results changed and/or try to get new slates of electors named.

• Trump publicly and privately pressured Mike Pence to do something on January 6, based on theories put forth by Eastman.

Now, what I'd like to see for cross examination -- and in the coherent absence of that possibility, maybe just a coherent report -- is a refutation of those conclusions I am reaching. What about these are not true? Again, I don't care about steering wheels or shattered plates -- it's just a distraction. I care about creating and spreading lies about the election results, pressuring state officials, and pressuring the VP to do something unconstitutional.

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bpj
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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by bpj » Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:29 am

Lol, libs are idiots.

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D-train
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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by D-train » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:42 pm

Speaking if political ads. Here is an "interesting" one.
dt

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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by auroraave » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 pm

bpj wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:29 am
Lol, libs are idiots.
I dunno, the "Liberal" label is being overused and over simplified for the covenience of having a villain. I'm pretty liberal. Gil is a classic example of the weak minded who sit around watching CNN and blindly accept their narratives as reality - while the other 85% of the country has figured out it's all nonsense. It's like conversing with children. He still can't explain why the SS agents haven't been subpoenad - the most common sense move of all time if there was anything to these allegations - and of course - right on cue - he wants to conveniently downplay the most lurid parts - which he probably beleived at first, but now realizes they are blatant lies, so, those are magically 'not important' now - even thought they were a few days ago. :lol: The best part is something about "Trump wanting Pence to do something un constitutional..." The complete lack of any critical thinking or common sense here is just astounding - but it is symptomatic of the CNN/MSNBC brainwashed ilk. Pence literally would not have the authority to do something unconstitutional, no matter if Trump wanted him to or not. It's a moot point. Pence COULD NOT DO IT even if he wanted to. That's not criminal in any way, unless you're consuming CNN. It's astonishing the total lack of any rational thinking - but it is also to be expected by the CNN watchers - they are told what to think - not how to think. These people are children - not Libs.

Honestly - Trump wanting Pence to do something he doesn't have the authority to do is a big concern.... exactly why? What specifically could Pence do?
He cannot do anything he doesn't have the authority to do. So what possible outcome could there be - other than nothing? There is NO common sense used by these people. Remember according to Gil - Nancy Pelosi desperately wanted to have an "unbiased" committee, and somehow, she managed to put a completely all-anti Trump committee together - what a convenient "accident". No common sense, no reasonable conclusions, not a moment of critical thinking - CNN does all their thinking for them. Another left wing conspiracy nut. Yikes. You would think even the dimmest bulb could do the math when the country is completely falling apart and the Dems are still playing the 'blame trump' card instead of trying to fix the mess they created.

lie, rinse, repeat. The Dem playbook.

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D-train
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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by D-train » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:28 pm

auroraave wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 pm
bpj wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:29 am
Lol, libs are idiots.
I dunno, the "Liberal" label is being overused and over simplified for the covenience of having a villain. I'm pretty liberal. Gil is a classic example of the weak minded who sit around watching CNN and blindly accept their narratives as reality - while the other 85% of the country has figured out it's all nonsense. It's like conversing with children. He still can't explain why the SS agents haven't been subpoenad - the most common sense move of all time if there was anything to these allegations - and of course - right on cue - he wants to conveniently downplay the most lurid parts - which he probably beleived at first, but now realizes they are blatant lies, so, those are magically 'not important' now - even thought they were a few days ago. :lol: The best part is something about "Trump wanting Pence to do something un constitutional..." The complete lack of any critical thinking or common sense here is just astounding - but it is symptomatic of the CNN/MSNBC brainwashed ilk. Pence literally would not have the authority to do something unconstitutional, no matter if Trump wanted him to or not. It's a moot point. Pence COULD NOT DO IT even if he wanted to. That's not criminal in any way, unless you're consuming CNN. It's astonishing the total lack of any rational thinking - but it is also to be expected by the CNN watchers - they are told what to think - not how to think. These people are children - not Libs.

Honestly - Trump wanting Pence to do something he doesn't have the authority to do is a big concern.... exactly why? What specifically could Pence do?
He cannot do anything he doesn't have the authority to do. So what possible outcome could there be - other than nothing? There is NO common sense used by these people. Remember according to Gil - Nancy Pelosi desperately wanted to have an "unbiased" committee, and somehow, she managed to put a completely all-anti Trump committee together - what a convenient "accident". No common sense, no reasonable conclusions, not a moment of critical thinking - CNN does all their thinking for them. Another left wing conspiracy nut. Yikes. You would think even the dimmest bulb could do the math when the country is completely falling apart and the Dems are still playing the 'blame trump' card instead of trying to fix the mess they created.

lie, rinse, repeat. The Dem playbook.
Exactly why the whole "Threat to the democracy" notion is beyond ludicrous.
dt

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gil
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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by gil » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:47 pm

auroraave wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 pm
bpj wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:29 am
Lol, libs are idiots.
I dunno, the "Liberal" label is being overused and over simplified for the covenience of having a villain. I'm pretty liberal. Gil is a classic example of the weak minded who sit around watching CNN and blindly accept their narratives as reality - while the other 85% of the country has figured out it's all nonsense. It's like conversing with children. He still can't explain why the SS agents haven't been subpoenad - the most common sense move of all time if there was anything to these allegations - and of course - right on cue - he wants to conveniently downplay the most lurid parts - which he probably beleived at first, but now realizes they are blatant lies, so, those are magically 'not important' now - even thought they were a few days ago. :lol: The best part is something about "Trump wanting Pence to do something un constitutional..." The complete lack of any critical thinking or common sense here is just astounding - but it is symptomatic of the CNN/MSNBC brainwashed ilk. Pence literally would not have the authority to do something unconstitutional, no matter if Trump wanted him to or not. It's a moot point. Pence COULD NOT DO IT even if he wanted to. That's not criminal in any way, unless you're consuming CNN. It's astonishing the total lack of any rational thinking - but it is also to be expected by the CNN watchers - they are told what to think - not how to think. These people are children - not Libs.

Honestly - Trump wanting Pence to do something he doesn't have the authority to do is a big concern.... exactly why? What specifically could Pence do?
He cannot do anything he doesn't have the authority to do. So what possible outcome could there be - other than nothing? There is NO common sense used by these people. Remember according to Gil - Nancy Pelosi desperately wanted to have an "unbiased" committee, and somehow, she managed to put a completely all-anti Trump committee together - what a convenient "accident". No common sense, no reasonable conclusions, not a moment of critical thinking - CNN does all their thinking for them. Another left wing conspiracy nut. Yikes. You would think even the dimmest bulb could do the math when the country is completely falling apart and the Dems are still playing the 'blame trump' card instead of trying to fix the mess they created.

lie, rinse, repeat. The Dem playbook.
For someone who seems smart and make a lot of good points, it seems that you miss the basic idea of a discussion: engaging in what a person says rather than shooting down things that he doesn't say or do.

I didn't say the steering wheel thing was important. I don't watch CNN (I don't have cable). You are just like all my left wing friends who say that Right wingers aren't to blame because, after all, all the news they get is from Fox. Why do some people assign such low capabilities for critical thought? I can listen to what a white supremacist says without becoming a white supremacist. I can listen to a defund the police argument without agreeing.

But I do wish someone would engage what I *did* say
For me, what I am taking away from the testimony is
• a great number of people in the White House accepted the official results of the election (including the top officials in the Justice Department). Trump didn't accept the results, at least publicly, and increasingly isolated himself with people who would tell him that there was fraud and they could prove it (e.g., Rudy G. Eastman, Powell).

• Trump, Giulliani, and I assume others went to state election officials and/or Republican legislators to try to get results changed and/or try to get new slates of electors named.

• Trump publicly and privately pressured Mike Pence to do something on January 6, based on theories put forth by Eastman.

Now, what I'd like to see for cross examination -- and in the coherent absence of that possibility, maybe just a coherent report -- is a refutation of those conclusions I am reaching. What about these are not true? Again, I don't care about steering wheels or shattered plates -- it's just a distraction. I care about creating and spreading lies about the election results, pressuring state officials, and pressuring the VP to do something unconstitutional.

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:19 pm

Gil, I will always stick up for your views and opinions, even though I don't understand how you can have them. But what you have just posted isn't anything new. It isn't anything that we haven't known for 18 months.
President Trump lost, he didn't' like it.
President Trump tried to get around it and said a lot of shit, but that is no different than what Hillary did and no smear campaign by congress happened.
The election DID HAVE a lot of questionable issues from dead people voting to Californians working the Arizona election. Just a lot of weird shit including an astounding amount of vote harvesting, duplicate ballots, etc... Nobody can deny any of this....AND nobody can say how many votes were illegal. but did it add up to Joe winning? For fucks sake, Joe got more of the black vote than Obama.

Aurorave, take it easy on Gil. He has his thoughts, and shouldn't be crucified for them. Maybe he'll eventually make the connection.

And remember, he isn't as bad as Coug and that other douche (StilllovetheM's), or something like that.

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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by D-train » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:54 pm

Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:19 pm
Gil, I will always stick up for your views and opinions, even though I don't understand how you can have them. But what you have just posted isn't anything new. It isn't anything that we haven't known for 18 months.
President Trump lost, he didn't' like it.
President Trump tried to get around it and said a lot of shit, but that is no different than what Hillary did and no smear campaign by congress happened.
The election DID HAVE a lot of questionable issues from dead people voting to Californians working the Arizona election. Just a lot of weird shit including an astounding amount of vote harvesting, duplicate ballots, etc... Nobody can deny any of this....AND nobody can say how many votes were illegal. but did it add up to Joe winning? For fucks sake, Joe got more of the black vote than Obama.

Aurorave, take it easy on Gil. He has his thoughts, and shouldn't be crucified for them. Maybe he'll eventually make the connection.

And remember, he isn't as bad as Coug and that other douche (StilllovetheM's), or something like that.
:lol:
dt

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Re: January 6th prime time shit show

Post by D-train » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:55 pm

Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:19 pm
Gil, I will always stick up for your views and opinions, even though I don't understand how you can have them. But what you have just posted isn't anything new. It isn't anything that we haven't known for 18 months.
President Trump lost, he didn't' like it.
President Trump tried to get around it and said a lot of shit, but that is no different than what Hillary did and no smear campaign by congress happened.
The election DID HAVE a lot of questionable issues from dead people voting to Californians working the Arizona election. Just a lot of weird shit including an astounding amount of vote harvesting, duplicate ballots, etc... Nobody can deny any of this....AND nobody can say how many votes were illegal. but did it add up to Joe winning? For fucks sake, Joe got more of the black vote than Obama.

Aurorave, take it easy on Gil. He has his thoughts, and shouldn't be crucified for them. Maybe he'll eventually make the connection.

And remember, he isn't as bad as Coug and that other douche (StilllovetheM's), or something like that.
Great post, Chris. Exactly how I see it.
dt

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